Death Rides a Horse / Da uomo a uomo (Giulio Petroni, 1967)


(Novecento) #161

Out of curiosity, how would you say “C’era una volta il West” and “C’era una volta la rivoluzione” in German if you were trying to translate as accurately but also as idiomatically as possible?


(Dillinger) #162

I would say:

“Es war einmal im Westen” and “Es war einmal in der Revolution”

The german title of “Once upon a time in America” actually is “Es war einmal in Amerika”

BTW I like “Todesmelodie” as Stanton said, a rather good german title…


(Paco Roman) #163

"Once upon a time … the revolution " German: “Es war einmal … die Revolution” sounds better to me. :slight_smile:


(Stanton) #164

[quote=“Dillinger, post:162, topic:172”]I would say:

“Es war einmal im Westen” and “Es war einmal in der Revolution”[/quote]

Es war einmal der Westen is closer to the original. Maybe a difference, maybe not.


(Novecento) #165

So would “Es war einmal der Revolution” be grammatically correct too?


(Stanton) #166

Almost.
Es war einmal die Revolution


(Novecento) #167

Oh ok, cos “Revolution” is feminine gender right?

Thanks for the online German lesson :smiley:


(scherpschutter) #168

[quote=“Novecento, post:167, topic:172”]Oh ok, cos “Revolution” is feminine gender right?

Thanks for the online German lesson :D[/quote]

In French nearly all words (of more than one syllable, so not counting words like pion, lion etc.) ending on -ion are feminine
In Italian nearly all similar words ending on -ione are feminine

Is this the case too for German words ending on -ion ?


(Paco Roman) #169

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:168, topic:172”]In French nearly all words (of more than one syllable, so not counting words like pion, lion etc.) ending on -ion are feminine
In Italian nearly all similar words ending on -ione are feminine

Is this the case too for German words ending on -ion ?[/quote]

I’m not a Specialist but I would say not every word with -ion but most of them. For example “Revolution” is female but “Ion” is Neuter with “Das”. :slight_smile:


(Ivn1945) #170

Best non-Leone spaghetti :wink:

RIP Lee van Cleef


(Reverend Danite) #171

Right - I’ve moved all the relevent stuff from another thread here where it makes more sense.

[quote=“Stanton, post:4942, topic:372”]Very interesting.
I would say that especially the opening scene is pretty weak.[/quote]

[quote=“korano, post:4948, topic:372”]I too find the opening strong. Stanton, we understand you don’t like it as much as most but do you honestly find it very interesting that someone likes the film?
The expressionist use of weather to interpret mood is brilliant and the atmosphere is thick[/quote]

[quote=“Stanton, post:4949, topic:372”]When I first watched DRaH I was so disappointed with the 1st scene that the film was dead for me before it already really had started.
Meanwhile I don’t think it is that bad, but it is still nothing special. I rewatched the scene this afternoon, and somehow it happened that I rewatched the whole picture.
Yes, I’m still surprised that this film is liked that much by so many SW fans.

"The handling of a brutal rape and murdering is exceptional"
Here I would partly agree, and this it what saves the 1st scene a bit. But I can’t see anything expressionistic in the photography, and my main idea about it is to call it cliched. There are a few good cuts in combination with the music, but too many aspects of this scene are still only mediocre for me.[/quote]

[quote=“valenciano, post:4952, topic:372”]I am also not the biggest fan of the opening scene. Its too dark and has not much atmosphere for me. When the violence starts it gets better. But the zoom onto the items of the bad guys is a bit too much. It is cliche and tries a bit too hard to create an atmosphere as if you are in a crime movie and you as a viewer can also try to solve the crime. I dont like it it is not subtle enough. In contrast to the rape scene which shows the exact amount of visuality that is needed to scare the viewer without showing too much.
So i have mixed feelings about the opening, but the very beginning is not very good in my eyes, due to dark images where you really cant see anything. but some parts of it are good and i undewrstand why some like it.[/quote]

[quote=“Reverend Danite, post:4954, topic:372”]Right - I’ve stuck DRaH in the computer … let’s have a look as it’s a while since I’ve seen it…
Right - it isn’t too dark a print imo. It’s the MGM one I am watching, is that the same as yours valenciano? I know there are ‘darker’ prints out there.
It is a bit silly that the opening dialogue is -
“You’d better watch out - that gang’s around here.” to be answered with a fellah shouting “And what we’ve got in the cart, $200,000, then we’d better keep our eyes open.” You can only imagine that he was hoping that the thunder, wind and rain would cover this. But the nasty weather and the mud does set a good scene for the action. The men being knocked off is pretty well done, but it’s when we see the contrast into the family home, through the window, that we realise instead of the safety and security that it should afford, it’s gonna be the setting for something nastier.
The rapes, after the father is dispatched, aren’t gratuitous - but does leave a lasting impression. In fact it isn’t even obvious that they are actually raped - it’s just that I would presume that in that time and situation, it would’ve been likely. I think that says something about ‘setting the scene’ sucessfully - it leaves some gaps that the viewer fills. The scene in the house is perfect for me - there is some genuine tension, the murder of the beautiful young daughter is quite shocking. Unlike Brother valenciano, I enjoy the clues that we are given - and I’m particularly pleased that I’m gonna be in for an episodic ‘one after the other’ style sw, as with Vengeance et all…
The boy is great when he’s dumped outside - he looks genuinely shocked and unable to comprehend what’s happened, and luckily for us he doesn’t snivel for too long either.
All in all, it does the job stylishly and memorably.
As both Stanton and valenciano point out, and I’d agree, it is cliched - but that really isn’t a problem for me.
(And as I’ve just noticed JW’s post - I agree - it stays with you - maybe more in mood, than detail though.)[/quote]

It’s implied of course, and that was obviously the intention of the gang, with all that blouse ripping. But, the women are fighting. After the daughter bites a hand and she scratches 4 Ace Cavanagh’s chest, the mother pulls the Pistilli character’s mask down, and they seem to back off. “That’s all - lets go.” says Pistilli. There’s no climbing off the women, no trouser pulling up and fastening. We know that in that time and place - those women would have been raped - but it isn’t in the film. Brutal murder - yep. Attempted rape - yep … but no rape.
It’s present - but only in the ‘mood’ - which makes the filmmaking even better.


(Stanton) #172

Hmm, I have to watch it again. I also always thought that it was obvious that both were raped, even if we don’t see it.


(Col. Douglas Mortimer) #173

I just showed this film to my boss/mentor and he loved it. He had already seen My name is nobody, the Trinity’s and the dollars trilogy previously so he was sorta familiar with Italian westerns but was suprised when I told him that there were about 500 made, cause he thought he had seen all of them! So I think I’ve successfully made an SW fan out of someone.

Since he’s black I also gave him Boss N***** and buck and the preacher to watch too LOL.


(John Welles) #174

[quote=“Reverend Danite, post:171, topic:172”]It’s implied of course, and that was obviously the intention of the gang, with all that blouse ripping. But, the women are fighting. After the daughter bites a hand and she scratches 4 Ace Cavanagh’s chest, the mother pulls the Pistilli character’s mask down, and they seem to back off. “That’s all - lets go.” says Pistilli. There’s no climbing off the women, no trouser pulling up and fastening. We know that in that time and place - those women would have been raped - but it isn’t in the film. Brutal murder - yep. Attempted rape - yep … but no rape.
It’s present - but only in the ‘mood’ - which makes the filmmaking even better.[/quote]
Yes, but isn’t there a cut to the boys eyes/face just before the daughter bites the man’s hand?


(Chris_Casey) #175

Not much to say here other than I, personally, think that DEATH RIDES A HORSE is a damn fine film. I still remember the first time I ever saw it. As a wee lad, I stayed up very late on a Friday night to catch it on the Independent TV Channel 34 out of Oklahoma City.
They showed the film absolutely uncut (though it was interrupted by commercials now and then).
Not to oversell the moment, but it truly was a memorable experience for me.

I remember being very impressed by the scene where John Philip Law rides into the little village amid a raging dust storm and he sees the decaying heads and outright bare skulls of people who have been buried up to their necks!
I thought that imagery was brilliant.

Then, many many years later, when I found myself in the badlands near Tabernas, Almeria, Spain… standing at the same spot where that imagery had been created…I thought about being that kid back in Oklahoma that had stayed up late to watch DEATH RIDES A HORSE.
I couldn’t believe that I was actually on the spot where that film (and many others, of course!) had been filmed. And I remember being a tad bit emotional at the thought.

So, like it or not…DEATH RIDES A HORSE has certainly had some sort of impact on most Spaghetti Western fans and that, to me, is a testament to its being a nicely done film, at the very least.


(Reverend Danite) #176

Changed my mind again. You’re right John, it is implicit during that cut to the boy’s eye(s), but it’s not really explicitly in anything else visual.


It’s really in the way the music changed here more than the visuals. The same sort of quick cut filmmaking goes on, jumping around the violence, but the music goes from sparse, and at times disappearing to only allow us to here the screams, to a discordant climatic bit - and the mood changes subtley. Everything else seems to be happening in ‘realtime’ but this bit lasts just seconds.
As this conversation started with a difference of opinion about the strength of these opening scenes I think this puts a strong case forward to our view of effective and clever filmmaking and use of music. You feel the nastiness of the rape, but it is not shown say, in the same way as some other films that have been criticised for lingering too long, and being accused of salaciousness.
Funny really though, without any analysis, I felt originally that there had been something nasty - including rape. Then, I watched in piecemeal, without the music and couldn’t see it. Finally I watched it again with the music, and this time it was there - it’s truely an “opera of violence”.
And as ‘cold, dead eyes’ go as Brother Romaine might say - these’d take some beating…


(John Welles) #177

Yeah, that’s exactly what I would have said Rev! ;D


(Yodlaf Peterson) #178

Upon watching this again recently i have realised i should have voted 4 instead of 3.


(LankyFellow) #179

It seems to me also,that this is getting better with each viewing


(Dillinger) #180

oops… I’ve only seen it once… :-[