I have the Fantoma DVD
When was it shown on BBC?
Is the Cox intro from this time maybe?
[quote=âNovecento, post:158, topic:122â]In â10,000 Ways to Dieâ Alex Cox says that the US R1 release is a âbetter looking, more complete versionâ than the UK R2 release. I was under the impression that both releases were complete and of the same image quality, with the R2 release being preferable due to it having the Italian audio track as well as the English one.
I am also aware that an extra with Alex Cox discussing the film is included on the US R1 release but not the UK R2 release which is rather ironic seeing as he is English. This perhaps explains why he favors the R1 release; perhaps NTSC and PAL differences misled him concerning running times?[/quote]
As far as Iâm aware the UK R2 release is as good as any. (and we canât say that very often) So maybe youâre right and Alex got confused by NTSC / PAL running time differences. I know I do.
As for his being on the R1 release. Not so ironic really as although he is english he has lived in the states for some time.
Then it wasnât shown on BBC before the R1 release?
First shown on U.K T.V (BBC 2) in the Moviedrome season, and was in the 1990 series. It had the highest viewing rating that week on BBC 2, and I am guessing here but may have been 4 or 5 million viewers.
The intro on the Fantoma DVD by Alex Cox is not the same as his intro to the film in the Moviedrome series. He wears a poncho and big hat in the Moviedrome intro.
Hey, newbieâs first post! 8) I watched TGS again the other day. Iâd have to say that itâs not only my favorite non-Leone spaghetti western, but my favorite non-Leone western in general. Incredible performances (esp. Kinski, who I genuinely believe is one of the greatest actors who ever lived), a wonderful soundtrack (Morricone is a god!), brilliant scenery, and of course, that classic ending make this among the best of the best.
Better than the Leones in my opinion! And welcome to the forum Cinephile!
Just found this over at DVD Timeshttp://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=12471 (bolded the relevant section):
The Great Silence has been released in Region 1 on a superb disc which contained a good transfer and some valuable extras. The Eureka Region 2 release is equally impressive on the transfer front but omits a couple of bonus features. Given that these were sourced in the UK and provided by our own Alex Cox, the omission is a little irksome.The film was, unusually for a Spaghetti, shot in a ratio of approximately 1.66:1 and this is respected on the disc. The transfer is non-anamorphic but this is the only major criticism. I was knocked off my seat by the clarity and richness of this image. Colours , often deliberately muted, come across strongly and the level of detail is immaculate. There is some print damage evident in places but this is relatively minor and considerably less of a problem than I would have expected for a film which, for all its qualities, is reasonably obscure. The print used looks identical to the Region 1 release from Fantomas and the transfer may even be a little more impressive.
There are two soundtracks included. The Region 1 Fantomas release contains an English 2.0 Mono mix which sounds a little crackly and suffers from hiss but is otherwise reasonably good. The Region 2 contains both this English track â identical to the Region 1 in quality â and also an Italian 2.0 Mono track which sounds a good deal cleaner. However, the downside of this is that it sounds a little too artificial and lacks atmosphere. Music comes across strongly on both tracks and dialogue â which would have been post-dubbed in any case â is eminently clear on the English track. English subtitles are offered for those who prefer the Italian track and itâs very nice to have the choice of which to listen to. I tended to prefer the English for its more natural sound but itâs a close-run thing.
The only extras are an Italian theatrical trailer, in poor condition, and the extraordinary alternative ending which exists only in a soundless version. Shot for the North African market, where it was considered the downbeat ending would be disastrous, itâs a complete mess which is very funny but also rather frightening when you consider that it was made by allegedly intelligent people. I wonât reveal what it contains but be prepared for the most unlikely âarrival of the cavalryâ scenes youâve ever seen.
The extras from the Region 1 which are omitted are the Alex Cox introduction to the film â which is like one of his Moviedrome pieces; enjoyable and informed but not essential â and a brief commentary on the alternative ending. I can live without these pieces but itâs hard to believe that they would have been very difficult for Eureka to include. Possibly the cost of submitting them to the BBFC was prohibitive in the circumstances.
Over at DVD Classikhttp://www.dvdclassik.com/Critiques/dvd_grandsilence.htm on the anamorphic 1.85:1 French release which suggests that 1:66.1 may not be the OAR:
Image : Nouvelle copie tirĂ©e dâun interpositif italien (tirĂ©e directement du nĂ©gatif original), le DVD propose une image lumineuse, Ă©crasant sans problĂšme lâimage de lâĂ©dition Fantoma parue en Zone 1. Les blancs sont respectĂ©s (encore heureux pour ce film !), trĂšs peu de granulation et surtout, la version qui vous est prĂ©sentĂ©e ici est la version longue de 102 mn (durĂ©e vidĂ©o, 106 mn durĂ©e cinĂ©ma) et non la version 98 mn de la VHS sortie dans les annĂ©es 80.
New copy sourced from an Italian negative (sourced directly from an original negative), the DVD offers a bright image, easily surpassing the image of the Fantoma Edition which appeared in Zone 1. The whites are respected (particularly welcome for this film !), very little grain and above all, the version that is presented for you here is the long version of 102 min (video, 106 theatrical) and not the 98 min version from the VHS which came out in the 80s.
I have this release, image quality is good, though not as good as they say in this review, there is some macro-blocking in backgrounds. I thought it was discussed on DVD Beaver. The DVD has no English language track.
The OAR is 1.66:1, the print used here was probably prepared for theatrical showings, they simply removed a small strip top & bottom, to get a more âwidescreenâ image
Canât find it at DVDBeaver
Here are some screenshots of the French DVD:
[/URL][URL=http://img389.imageshack.us/i/legrandsilence0191.jpg/][url]http://img29.imageshack.us/i/legrandsilence0181.jpg/[/url]
![http://img29.imageshack.us/i/legrandsilence0181.jpg/[/url]](http://img29.imageshack.us/i/legrandsilence0181.jpg/%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
Looks quite pretty, Iâd say
Thanks very much for posting those images Scherp. Comparing the lower one to the image below taken from my copy of the UK DVD, the French one does actually appear to be significantly wider (count the trees and note the black fleck which is still off-screen on the UK release) but very slightly cropped vertically (as you mentioned):
![http://img36.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap86798.png/[/url]](http://img36.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap86798.png/%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
This is only tangentially related, but itâs todayâs news that the Dolomites, therefore including the locations where most of The Great Silence was shot, have been inscribed on UNESCOâs world heritage list[url]Wadden Sea, Italyâs Dolomites and Philippinesâs Tubbataha Reefs Natural Park inscribed on UNESCOâs World Heritage List - UNESCO World Heritage Centre⊠indirectly, another point of excellence for this film ;D
Along with the Dutch Wadden Sea, but as far as I know, no spaghetti western was ever shot there:
![http://img29.imageshack.us/i/waddenzee1.jpg/[/url]](http://img29.imageshack.us/i/waddenzee1.jpg/%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
From the Sergio Leone Web board.
[quote=âmike siegelâ]I remember there was always talk about the format SILENZIO was shot. Some claimed 4:3 with MATTE in the theaters (1:1,66 or US Widescreen 1:1,85). I recently purchased a 35mm print, for the record: it was shot in 1:1,85.
The DVD ratio is not that bad but it is not perfect either:
[/quote]
Mike Siegel also answers Novecentoâs question:
[quote=âmike siegelâ]Well, we donât know from where DVDcompare has its information. I doubt that they have a 35mm printâŠ
All I can say that mine is a first release print from 1969. 1:1,85 is the OAR, not 1:1,66.
(on the right and left there is more picture information than on the DVDâs (I know of).[/quote]
Well âŠ
And there is a trailer on the German DVD in 1,85:1, where you also can see a bit more on the sides than on the main film of the DVD.
Iâm going with 1.85:1 as the OAR which seems more likely in any case than 1.66:1.
[quote=âNovecento, post:158, topic:122â]In â10,000 Ways to Dieâ Alex Cox says that the US R1 release is a âbetter looking, more complete versionâ than the UK R2 release. I was under the impression that both releases were complete and of the same image quality, with the R2 release being preferable due to it having the Italian audio track as well as the English one.
I am also aware that an extra with Alex Cox discussing the film is included on the US R1 release but not the UK R2 release which is rather ironic seeing as he is English. This perhaps explains why he favors the R1 release; perhaps NTSC and PAL differences misled him concerning running times?[/quote]
Ooops, looks like I misread Alex Cox and have done him a bit of an injustice. He is referring to the Imagica R2 DVD which is the Japanese release, not the UK Eureka release. I got confused with Japan and the UK both being R2.
Seems Iâm on the losing side with 1,66:1
Well, it seemed more likely to me, but maybe there was some kind of open matte, otherwise itâs hard to explain that one version shows more top & bottom, the other more left & right
Iâm still not sure.
You can get widescreen on a 35 mm film (which has a 1,33:1 aspect ratio) by using an anamorphic lens which compresses a 2,35:1 picture to the 1,33:1 of the camera negative. In the cinema they depress it with another special lens back to 2,35:1. without these lens it is squeezed, just like faulty DVDs, on which the anamorphic flag does not work.
Itâs mostly 2,35:1 but there are also other formats possible. Vistavision for example could go even down to 1,85:1 (like The Searchers)
But Mike Siegelâs print is obviously not anamorphic.
Or you just use the complete 1,33:1 picture when filming, but you donât show the top and bottom of the picture in cinema by simply masking them. Of course if the are shooting it for a widescreen presentation the picture composition of the filmmakers has to consider that these parts wonât be seen in a cinema. But they are visible on a open matte presentation either on TV or DVD.
But either if you are masking them with 1,66:1 or 1,78:1 or 1,85:1 or you show them without any masking, the sides should always be the same.
And so many people canât be at fault by stating that TGS was originally intended for 1,66:1. A aspect ratio Corbucci has often used in his westerns (Django, Johnny Oro, What do We do âŠ). Itâs called Panoramico in Brucknerâs book, but Minnesota Clay and Massacro are on DVD in 1,85:1, while Django and TGS are in 1,66:1. In all versions worldwide so far.
I donât know why it happens (do they always make it on purpose? does it have something to with the way film is transferred to digital? can they ever transfer everything the film print shows?), but for example with the Face to Face discs the old cut crappy Spanish disc has the exact same aspect ratio as the excellent Koch Media disc, but the Spanish disc shows more image at all four sides.
See for example the pole at the right side of the image:
http://www.sundances.net/spaghetti/screenshots/fafkoch6.jpg (No pole!)
But the differences arenât so big at some other scenes:
http://www.sundances.net/spaghetti/fafscr.php (lots of pics from five different discs and btw, check the differences between the Koch and Seven 7 discs⊠one of them looks more like film and the other one has been smoothed to appeal to stupid masses, or maybe they thought they couldnât compress the grain well enough 
)
I canât remember any titles, but there have also been some discs of other movies where disc A might have more image at the top in some scenes and in some other scenes disc B has more image at the top and I donât think they had used different print for different scenes (then again some might have).
And sometimes there might not be any framing differences between two releases that have different aspect ratio⊠one might just be squeezed or stretched in some way.
Anyways, what Iâm trying to say is that it is possible the French disc still doesnât show everything it could at the left and/or right sides. Perhaps it is like the Face to Face Koch disc, missing image at all four sides. Zoomed in.
The aspect ratio on the UK disc seems to actually be something like 1.61:1. Not that thereâs really much difference but it should be about 21 pixels wider to be 1.66:1. Which is perhaps about as wide as the word âbutâ on these forums (with default font size).