Spaghetti Westerns: The Good, the Bad and the Violent (Thomas Weisser)

[Bill_san_Antonio]

@Chris_Casey

Ooo…that is a dangerous book to have in hand, amigo. LOTS of errors and untruths. Hope you don’t take it for the SW Bible!

@Phil H

Actually Chris I do look upon this book as just like the bible. It’s a great book but you shouldn’t believe everything you read in it.

@Bill san Antonio

I haven’t read the book but according to what I’ve read about it I believe that the whole book (and Weisser too) is a big joke. Full of errors, films that doesn’t exist and plain lying too.

@Silver

OH Geez! Where to begin. I got this book when it came out. Had to special order it (a hardback edition that cost me more money than i care to remember!). On one hand, it is quite a useful book to have, but it is littered with an almost unbelievable amount of mistakes. Wrong plot descriptions; wrong character/actor names; some actors are listed several times, (as different people, when in fact it was just different psuedonyms they had used). Then there’s stuff like, three different mentions of Peter Lee Lawrence’s death, all suggesting a different time period. At one point it says he killed himself shortly after completing one film, when in fact he made several more after it! The list really is endless…

@Yodlaf Peterson

check this http://www.lovelockandload.net/forum/index.php?topic=244.0

@Phil H

Yeah, they really don’t like him very much do they. And you can see why! However, It is still the easiest to use A-Z guide there is so far and can be helpful for cross referencing purposes. You just have to tread carefully and double check any information in it.

@Tom B.

I thought the article on Weisser was a bit too easy on the guy. I don’t thing he saw 30 percent of the films he wrote about he just used Unitalian books, clippings and other information he could find. He thinks Daniele Vargas is a female when in fact it’s Dan Vargas’ proper name who played the main protagonist in CEMETERY WITHOUT CROSSES and Good Jim in THE STRANGER RETURNS. By the way he never did return any of the posters, stills and lobby cards I supplied him for the book. He claimed they were destroyed in a hurricane. The book is only good for a quick reference and then you are on your own to find out any further information.

@Silver

Very amusing read! And i did have some of those Asian Trash Cinema digests that were mentioned. They were (as said) just as mistake ridden, and Weisser seemed obsessed with making out that a couple of the actors were gay for some reason. In fact he didn’t seem to even like the genre much which begged the question as to why he would bother. Unfortunately it seems a common thing with a lot of books. I recently read one about Hammer films allegedly written by a “lifelong fan” and it was littered with mistakes too. Back to Weisser’s spaghetti book though…if i had taken half those reviews seriously i wouldn’t have sought out and seen some very good films!

Let’s continue discussion here, please.

[AvatarDK]

I must say that I’ve enjoyed reading Thomas Weisser’s book. As long as you are aware that not all you read is necessarily true I find it very entertaining.

For reference purposes I use Ulrich Bruckner’s Für ein paar Leichen mehr which is a bit more reliable + more readily available in Europe (can be obtained from amazon.de). Should be on every spaghetti western fan’s book shelf.

[Phil_H]

@AvatarDK

For reference purposes I use Ulrich Bruckner’s Für ein paar Leichen mehr which is a bit more reliable + more readily available in Europe (can be obtained from amazon.de). Should be on every spaghetti western fan’s book shelf.

Providing you speak german, presumably

[Phil_H]

The real problem I have in regard to Weisser’s book is not the amount of inaccuracies in it, as these are easily disregarded if you know not to rely on it. It is its wide distribution and position as sole english language book of its kind. As a result it still gets used and relied on by people who don’t know of its flaws and, even worse, gets used by others when writing their own books.

For example, I noticed that it is listed in the bibliography of the italian Dizionario that has just been released. I hope this is as a result of the author’s being aware of the book, not because he used it as a reliable source of information!

I guess for me, this is one of the things which makes the work we do on this database so important.

[AvatarDK]

@Phil H

Providing you speak german, presumably

Is best of course but the reference index lists each movie under it’s original Italian (or Spanish) title so this part of the book can be used by non-German speakers also. You miss out on the synopsis of course but it’s easy to find out who made or were in what and when. In short there’s a lot of useful indexes which don’t require any German-speaking/reading talents.

[Raph_Alv]

@Bill san Antonio

Let’s continue discussion here, please.

Well I read that, but what´s the intention of lieing ? Some films they invented ??? Strange… Is that true

[Tom_B]

I had dinner with Ulrich Bruckner here in California on Monday. He and his family flew back to Munich on Tuesday.
Ulrich would love to have his book translated and published in English but I don’t think any American company would tackle the job. Maybe a British book company? I use Ulrich’s book as a main resource because he covers everything including the music. He’s made some mistakes but they are minor compared to Weisser.

[Hud]

@Raph_Alv

Well I read that, but what´s the intention of lieing ? Some films they invented ??? Strange… Is that true

Tom Weisser simply seems to have been thinking that if he can get away with stuff like that, why not? Why bother?

I guess he was cynically aware of the lack of spaghetti western information (in America at least), and along with spreading real information he actually exploited the genre’s unknown status. Or at least used it as an excuse for not doing his homework (checking facts, naming sources, actually watching the movies, etc). Selling more Video Search of Miami tapes seems to have be the book’s hidden agenda. European horror films were hot underground items in pre-DVD times and Weisser never fails to mention the giallo / exploitation / horror credits of SW filmmakers, stuff that’s often out of place in a western book and appears to be there for the purpose of encouraging European horror fans into buying European westerns. This reaches absurd proportions when Weisser always singles out the “excellent” cinematography of exploitation director / DP Joe D’Amato that’s often totally workmanlike and dull, and it all feels like an attempt to get Italo-horror fans interested. I doubt if this was successful.

[Raph_Alv]

@Hud

Tom Weisser simply seems to have been thinking that if he can get away with stuff like that, why not? Why bother? I guess he was cynically aware of the lack of spaghetti western information (in America at least), and along with spreading real information he actually exploited the genre’s unknown status. Or at least used it as an excuse for not doing his homework (checking facts, naming sources, actually watching the movies, etc). Selling more Video Search of Miami tapes seems to have be the book’s hidden agenda. European horror films were hot underground items in pre-DVD times and Weisser never fails to mention the giallo / exploitation / horror credits of SW filmmakers, stuff that’s often out of place in a western book and appears to be there for the purpose of encouraging European horror fans into buying European westerns. This reaches absurd proportions when Weisser always singles out the “excellent” cinematography of exploitation director / DP Joe D’Amato that’s often totally workmanlike and dull, and it all feels like an attempt to get Italo-horror fans interested. I doubt if this was successful.

So… must go to the avoid list ?
What book do you recommend ? A complete one !

thanks

[AvatarDK]

@Raph_Alv

So… must go to the avoid list ? What book do you recommend ? A complete one !

If do want a book in English I don’t think you have any choice but Weisser’s book BUT the as recommended elsewhere on the site Ulrich Bruckner’s book “Für ein paar Leichen mehr” is the book to get. Sure it is in German but has an excellent index including every spaghetti western released and ordered by it’s original Italian/Spanish title and with excellent info regarding cast / director / composer etc. and cd soundtrack info which you can use even if you don’t speak the language. The synopsis for each movie is in German of course. Includes a lot of other useful indexes too: Actors, Directors, Composers etc. listing what each contributed to. Recommended also for non-Germans.

[Silver_Wolf]

@AvatarDK

If do want a book in English I don’t think you have any choice but Weisser’s book BUT the as recommended elsewhere on the site Ulrich Bruckner’s book “Für ein paar Leichen mehr” is the book to get. Sure it is in German but has an excellent index including every spaghetti western released and ordered by it’s original Italian/Spanish title and with excellent info regarding cast / director / composer etc. and cd soundtrack info which you can use even if you don’t speak the language. The synopsis for each movie is in German of course. Includes a lot of other useful indexes too: Actors, Directors, Composers etc. listing what each contributed to. Recommended also for non-Germans.

Western all’ Italiana, Book 3 has a (supposed-to-be-)complete list of known spaghetti western sorted by a year of original release. No plot synopsis are given but other info is very reliable. Not to mention that the book reviews a huge number of little-seen cult SWs. Few films are missing (Amanecer en Puerta Oscura & Hanno ucciso un altro bandito at least) and some other claims seem strange (…E lo chiamarono Spirito Santo was made year before Carnimeo’s Spirito Santo film…??) but that’s almost nothing since otherwise it seems to be the most accurate SW book at the moment. Includes Italian, Spanish and English-language titles for almost all films, year of release, director, actors (both pseudonyms and real names are given), composer and other basic information. Paella & tortilla westerns have a small synopsis with some information why it’s in the book. This is the book I use.

About D’Amato’s cinematography… he was quite famous among Italian “B” films directors for working fast and still being able to make something out of nothing. Sure he wasn’t the best cinematographer working in Italy but given that the films he was working on during the 70s usually had a miserable budget to say at least his work was very impressive. Fidani’s best-looking films are those on which he worked with D’Amato, for example.

[ENNIOO]

I would not enjoy reading the Weisser book with this level of incorrect info in.

[SARTANA_DJANGO_BALLA (SARTANA DJANGO BALLADS)]

I aim to have all 3 major reference books for comparison.
I have Thomas Weisser’s and despite some “errors” I tend to rely on it but
will be analysing carefully the other 2 great books discussed here.
I speak Italian so that will help with the Westerns all’Italiana .

I wish a reference book could be printed to include the careers of such SWs
all time greats as PETER LEE LAWRENCE and RICHARD HARRISON.

[Phil_H]

If you speak italian you should try to get hold of Marco Giusti’s Dizionario Del Western All’Italiana. I find myself using it more and more.

[SARTANA_DJANGO_BALLA (SARTANA DJANGO BALLADS)]

Thank you very much Phil H I will try to order that Italian Western Dictionary
as it is an essential reference work. Reference books are my passion.

I am extremely impressed by the wealth of knowledge, postings and high quality
of this SWs Forum.

It is an absolute treasure (and pleasure) to be part of it.

[Phil_H]

You are very welcome my friend.
And welcome to the Forum. Always good to have new members.

[AvatarDK]

@Silver Wolf

Western all’ Italiana, Book 3 has a (supposed-to-be-)complete list of known spaghetti western sorted by a year of original release. No plot synopsis are given but other info is very reliable.

True. But you need the other two volumes else the index isn’t worth very much. Many of the movies mearly states director and you have to look up the rest in of the previous volumes 1 or 2 which I of course don’t have Plus Bruckner deals out more info regarding each movie than Western All’Italiana does.

If you speak italian you should try to get hold of Marco Giusti's Dizionario Del Western All'Italiana. I find myself using it more and more.

The indexes must be useful for non-Italian speaking people too!?

The books mentioned are surely the most comprehensive regarding a quick snap shot of the entire spaghetti western release list but one book I can recommend which have been the most fun to read is Christian Kessler’s Willkommen in der Hölle. This is one fun book. Christian reviews a bunch of known and lesser known spaghetti westerns in his own style. This aint dry reading Recommended for the German-speaking/reading crowd !!

[stanton]

Does anyone here has a spare copy of the Kessler book for selling or trading?

[Phil_H]

@AvatarDK

The indexes must be useful for non-Italian speaking people too!?

Absolutely. No problem with that part whether you speak italian or not. Plus, although I struggle to understand most of the reviews and commentary I can make out bits of it thanks to my smattering of Spanish and I have found some very useful stuff in it.

[alk0]

@SARTANA DJANGO BALLADS

Thank you very much Phil H I will try to order that Italian Western Dictionary, as it is an essential reference work. Reference books are my passion. I am extremely impressed by the wealth of knowledge, postings and high quality of this SWs Forum. It is an absolute treasure (and pleasure) to be part of it.

Welcome to the forum SARTANA DJANGO BALLADS, i hope you will enjoy your stay