To me, the Django dub sounds like English actors trying to fake American accents & doing a bad job of it - especially the saloon keeper, but it’s noticeable with other characters too. I don’t whether any info is available on the dub cast to corroborate this.
I had to watch Django several times before I actually liked it, & the terrible dub is one of the main reasons. Are there any alternative English dubs of it available? Even fan-created ones?
I’ll probably need to get hold of the Italian version with subs at some point. The only SW I’ve watched like that was the Great Silence, which worked pretty well. However, it does seem a little odd watching a film with an American setting presented in Italian, & since all versions (including the Italian) are dubs anyway, it doesn’t seem essential.
[quote=“Chris_Casey, post:2, topic:2121”]DJANGO has the worst English language dubbing known to man! Thus, it is imperative to always watch that one in Italian with English subtitles.
I agree with you on MASSACRE TIME, as well (my Japanese SPO disc has both English and Italian audio options with English subs available, too).
I also prefer to watch another Franco Nero film in Italian with English subs…and that is TEXAS ADIOS.
Believe it or not, Franco Nero’s own voice was not used in ANY of the films mentioned above–not even in the Italian versions!
It was felt that Nero’s speaking voice sounded too young and that he needed a more mature sounding voice for these films.[/quote]
This is the first time i’ve seen this thread.
I remember reading somewhere that Franco Nero didn’t dub his own voice in these earlier films because his English still wasn’t good enough at the time.
Sanjuro, the Blue Underground Django DVD has Italian audio with English subs (cant wait for the Blu-ray) The english dubbing is baaad! On par with the worst kung fu movies.On another note, it helps to understand german…The German dubs are usually pretty good!
[quote=“Chris_Casey, post:2, topic:2121”]DJANGO has the worst English language dubbing known to man! Thus, it is imperative to always watch that one in Italian with English subtitles.
I agree with you on MASSACRE TIME, as well (my Japanese SPO disc has both English and Italian audio options with English subs available, too).
I also prefer to watch another Franco Nero film in Italian with English subs…and that is TEXAS ADIOS.
Believe it or not, Franco Nero’s own voice was not used in ANY of the films mentioned above–not even in the Italian versions!
It was felt that Nero’s speaking voice sounded too young and that he needed a more mature sounding voice for these films.
Nero dubbed his own voice in the English version of THE MERCENARY, but I believe the Italian version of that film does not feature Nero’s own voice.
If I recall correctly, the first Western that featured Nero’s own voice in both the Italian and English version was VAMOS A MATAR COMPANEROS.
I have heard that THE GREAT SILENCE is also better in Italian with English subs, but I have never had the opportunity to see it that way.[/quote]
Doesn’t Texas Adios have the same dubber for Nero as in Massacre Time?
[quote=“Lindberg, post:36, topic:2121”]Former British colonies and places like South Africa obviously showed spaghetti westerns with an english dub
I have not seen it myself, but apparently in the 1972 Jamaican rasta movie ‘The Harder They Come’ there is a scene where the main character goes to a cinema and there is a scene from ‘Django’ ;D[/quote]
In fact, there was a Jamaican reggae group called The Upsetters who had an hit record in 1969 called “The Return of Django.” No lyrics, basically rhythm & saxophone. The next year they had another record out called “Clint Eastwood”!
Yes I know about this spaghetti western inspired reggae
Actually there were more bands than The Upsetters who did this
This seems to have been almost some bizarre sub-genre of reggae in Jamaica, most of the songs without lyrics, but spiced up with pistol shots and other SW stuff
The band Count Machuki had a song called ‘Franco Nero’ in 1970, it had lyrics though
[i]
I’m Franco Nero of a big gun-a
I sells death to di highest bidder
If you want me meet me face to face
That’s your first lesson
I’m Franco Nero
Don’t you attack from the back-you’ll get dropped
I’m Franco Nero
I’m Franco Nero
I send no challenge and I refuse none
I’m Franco Nero
Will stand back for no one
Franco Nero
I’m Franco Nero
If you want me meet me face to face
Don’t attack from the back or you’ll stay dropped
I’m Franco Nero
I’m Franco Nero
This is Franco Nero in town
I’m Franco Nero
Meet Franco Nero
Just in case, this is of interest for you guys. In Spain, it was much the same as in Italy. Films were almost always shot MOS and the sound added later, though not necessarily with the same cast. When it came to Spanish actors, there were some who rarely it ever dubbbed themselves, and others who usually did. SW Spanish actors who almost always did their own dubbing included Eduardo Fajardo (who was a dubber of other actors as well until at least late in the eighties), César Ojínaga (the deputy from Brass’s Yankee, a career dubber until his death about a decade ago), José Bodalo (something of an acting legend in Spain) and, of course, Fernando Sancho. I believe Sancho was based in Madrid, but would often make Barcelona films (those by Iquino, Juan Bosch, Manuel Esteba, the Balcázar Bros etc). In those films, sometimes he’d stay on and dub in his own voice; sometimes, he’d leave and he’d be dubbed by his Barcelona-based sound-alike brother Emilio Sancho.
There are some weird stories attached to Spanish dubbing. In Balcázar’s Pistoleros de Arizona, we do hear Sancho dub himself. Ojínaga also appears, doing what he usually did in such films: appear briefly, look mean and then get shot. But he’s dubbed by somebody else. And yet, when Antonio Molino Rojo (who in other films occasionally dubbed himself, if I’m not mistaken) turns up as one of the henchmen, we hear Ojínaga’s voice! Sancho is heard with his own voice.
A similar anecdote occurs in Iquino’s Los fabulosos de Trinidad. This stars Ricardo Palacios, Cris Huerta and Tito García as three comic fatmen who get involved in various kinds of trouble with Richard Harrison and Fernando Sancho. A self-dubbed Ojínaga has a role as a comic villain. It was shot outside Barcelona and it’s obvious that Palacios, Huerta and García simply did their job and flew back to Madridd, for their voices aren’t heard. Huerta is dubbed by (it sounds to me) the character actor Francisco Jarque Zurbano, while Palacios has the voice of, again, Ojínaga. Then problems start when Palacios and Ojínaga have to share the same scene. Palacios retains Ojínaga’s voice, while Ojjínaga himself suddenly acquires the voice of Jarque Zurbano!
Really interesting! Thanks Nzoog! For some reason I find all this dubbing stuff really fascinating. Are there any SWs that you’d recommend in Spanish over say Italian or English (or perhaps the occasional French one)? Something like “El precio de un hombre” for instance…
I’ve only seen EL PRECIO DE UN HOMBRE in Spanish! It’s a good job, done in Madrid, with the excellent Juan Logar (a better actor than director) as the voice of Milian, who he also dubbed in THE BIG GUNDOWN. Wyler had the voice of the late Félix Acaso.
Italian dubbing, to me, is the best, but one SW that is certainly better in Spanish than in Italian, is Juan Bosch’s DALLAS. This is one occasion on which Fernando Sancho was dubbed by neither himself nor his brother, but Felipe Peña (a bass, as opposed to Sancho’s baritone) does a great job, as does Rogelio Hernández as Steffen. Ricardo Palacios, although a professional dubber himself, was dubbed by somebody else, namely, Antonio Fernández Sánchez.
What I find irritating are those occasions in which Fajardo wasn’t around and he had to be dubbed by a colleague. Fajardo sounded great with his velvety bass tones. He was also the Spanish voice of Orson Welles in OTHELLO and that of Jess Hahn in THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND.
If memory serves, the most common Madrid voices for leads in SWs are those of Claudio Rodríguez and José Guardiola (an onsscreen actor in TEXAS ADDIO). The most common Barcelona voices were those of Rogelio Hernández, José Luis Sansalvador and Manuel Cano, who worked a lot for the Balcázaar sound studios.
There’s a great Spanish database on the subject:
My experience tells me that the Italians are those most trustworthy, the Spanish coming second. The French are more uneven and the English language dub being the weakest. Don’t know anything about the Germans.
In Portugal we always use subtitles, so the films come in their original language, which means that sometimes they came dubbed from origin like when there is a American actor in a italian film.
A few years ago there was some discussion if we should start to dubbed films, more work for actors, language protection etc, but allmost everyone (with exception of the actors) was agaisnt it we are much used to subtitles.
And why do we use it, well it seems that during the dictadorship years (almost half a century in Portugal 1926 to 1974) when the mute films ended, there wasn’t that much cinemas in Portugal and the most important and seen films of the 30 and 40’s were Portuguese, but even so for the foreign movies the institutionalized powers opted for subtitles, cause most of the population was illiterate, so they can not understand the films and could not suffer the influence of the fims mostly of democratic countries, of courrse they could have done it like in Spain, censoring the films by cutting them, or dubbing it in a very different way from the original, but they think that subtitles would be a more easy way, anyway they had the power to choose the films that could be seen by the public.
This problem become more proeminent with the start of television in the fifities, the range of viewers was of course bigger, but they still choose the same solution, subtitles. Most of the people was still illiterate, and didn’t speak or understand other languages besides Portuguese, so they would never be influenciated by the possible “deviant” messages of the dangerous to the fascist regime, foreign films, only a small minority could understand those films and read the subs.
So in the end the use of subtitles in Portugal started as an easy way of censorship. Of course with the years and the higher level of education from the people, we became used to subtitles and to the natural voice of the actors, voices that the public was use to ear all those years, Frank Sinatra was Frank Sinatra it’s unthinkable to us, to hear it with another voice and in another language that not english. For us it’s very strange, odd, to say the least, see Spanish television series dubbed. When I was a kid, I remember being in towns near the frontier with Spain (where it was possbile to see Spanish television), and watch Dallas, the A-team and other series and laught the all way, with J.R. or Mr T or speaking in Spanish, but of course it’s just a question of habit.
[quote=“Nzoog Wahrlfhehen, post:52, topic:2121”]I’ve only seen EL PRECIO DE UN HOMBRE in Spanish! It’s a good job, done in Madrid, with the excellent Juan Logar (a better actor than director) as the voice of Milian, who he also dubbed in THE BIG GUNDOWN. Wyler had the voice of the late Félix Acaso.
Italian dubbing, to me, is the best, but one SW that is certainly better in Spanish than in Italian, is Juan Bosch’s DALLAS. This is one occasion on which Fernando Sancho was dubbed by neither himself nor his brother, but Felipe Peña (a bass, as opposed to Sancho’s baritone) does a great job, as does Rogelio Hernández as Steffen. Ricardo Palacios, although a professional dubber himself, was dubbed by somebody else, namely, Antonio Fernández Sánchez.
What I find irritating are those occasions in which Fajardo wasn’t around and he had to be dubbed by a colleague. Fajardo sounded great with his velvety bass tones. He was also the Spanish voice of Orson Welles in OTHELLO and that of Jess Hahn in THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND.
If memory serves, the most common Madrid voices for leads in SWs are those of Claudio Rodríguez and José Guardiola (an onsscreen actor in TEXAS ADDIO). The most common Barcelona voices were those of Rogelio Hernández, José Luis Sansalvador and Manuel Cano, who worked a lot for the Balcázaar sound studios.
There’s a great Spanish database on the subject:
My experience tells me that the Italians are those most trustworthy, the Spanish coming second. The French are more uneven and the English language dub being the weakest. Don’t know anything about the Germans.[/quote]
Let me add my thanks for this info Nzoog.
Illuminating stuff for me.
So not only did Milian not get to do his own English or Italian dubbing on the The Big Gundown, he didn’t even get to do it in his native Spanish! I wonder if there are any Milian SWs where he did the Spanish dubbing as well? It would be pretty impressive for him to do all three. Do you happen to know who dubbed him in Spanish in Tepepa or Faccia a Faccia for instance?
In those two films Milian was dubbed by Félix Acaso, who also did Wallach in GBU, Wyler in EL PRECIO DE UN HOMBRE, Steffen in STRANGER IN PASO BRAVO and the heroes of Zabalza’s westerns. The Spanish version of FACE TO FACE was marred by cuts and by Francisco Valladares’s halting dubbing of Volonté. (Valladares, who starred as a physical actor in ORLOFF AND THE INVISIBLE MAN, was Eastwood’s voice in GBU. He is often regarded as the only Spanish Eastwood dubber who vocally resembled Eastwood himself, usually dubbed into Spanish by basses). Berger, in that film, was voiced by a personal favourite of mine, José Martínez Blanco, who also did Berger in RINGO’S BIG NIGHT, as well as Nero in TEXAS ADDIO, Van Cleef in THE BIG GUNDOWN, Bud Spencer in most of his early 70s movies, and Franco Franchi in several Franco and Cicccio movies. His was the type of voice that adapted easily, as this resumé might suggest.
The Spanish dubbing of Mr. T has been brought up. That voice was by an SW regular, the very gruff-sounding and gruff-looking Antonio Iranzo.
What Topo says about Portugal is interesting. Dubbing in Spain was fostered in the times of the Republic by the illiteracy of many people. Later, in Franco’s time, it was enforced by nationalistic policies. When this policy was abandoned, dubbing had simply caught on and become an industry so it remained. Among the very early Spanish dubbers were FernandoR Rey (of COMPAÑEROS), Eduardo Fajardo, Fernando Sancho (who voiced Stan Laurel, not Oliver Hardy, as often stated) and Alejandro Ulloa, not the photographer but the villain in ABRE TU T FOSA, AMIGO…LLEGA SÁBATA.
Fernando Rey a great actor.
How could two dictadorships could be so diferent, to be honest this problem only started to worry the regime with the start of television, because of the bigger audience, but in the end we become so use to subs and the original voices, that dubs are quite odd to us, to my spanish friends I alwys give the exemple of the Knight Rider series and how comic to us was hearing David Hasselhoff calling kit - Kit Kit te necessito. The time spend in Madrid I always went to the special cinemas in which the fiilms had subs :).
We also have the bad experience of Brazilian dubs which was like the Spanish language dubs were made in Mexico or something similar
I’d say the Franco regime was fiercer than that of Salazar, but there’s one curious analogy: a greater fear of ordinary over elite people. In Spain, a populist genre film would have been dealt with more harshly than some avant-garde film, in the belief that spoke obscurely and to a minority audience was less likely to cause mischief. SWs that were cut on political grounds include A BULLET FOR THE GENERAL (the opening firing squad scene, any scenes of soldiers and civilians killing each other). In the credits of COMPAÑEROS, the lyrics of Morricone’s song were obscured by added sound effects of gunfire.
The english dubbing is baaad! On par with the worst kung fu movies.On another note, it helps to understand german…The German dubs are usually pretty good!