As you know I am a 100% mega fan of SWs/Euro Westerns/Giallos etc and before I
compile any TOP 20 or Top 50 I like to think and consider all the magnificent SWs.
I had the impression that many previous Top 20s were made from a selective few SWs
and in fact many on this forum have said that they have seen a limited number of SWs
so their Top 20s will tend to be similar and predictable.
I am a WIDE RANGING Sw fan and I will watch Craig Hill, John Richardson, Mark Damon
just as much as I watch Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef and the “top westerns”
The SWs like “Companeros”, “Day Of Anger” , “Big Gundown” “TGS” I of course like
and appreciate very much but maybe NOT as much as I love a sadistic revenge SW :o
I have included many expected TOP 20 SWs and my eyes and ears are always
seeking MORE and MORE SWs to see and enjoy NOT like Stanton who wants to
see less and no “bad SWs”…are there any ? except for T.Hill/B.Spencer ???
I disagree about VENGEANCE 68 where Richard Harrison is as always heroic/appealing
and the plot is nicely paced to a conclusion.
JOE FIND A PLACE TO DIE 1969 I thought that JEFF HUNTER was perfectly cast and
PASCALE PETIT his leading lady was both sexy, sensual, dramatic and believable.
The supporting cast was also well chosen and I was very happy with the film.
You see SD there is something we can have a common ground. I allways felt the top 20 list should have ones favourite spaghettis in it. To make a list of the 20 most important or best SW´s is hard and stupid in my eyes. But in general I would appreciate in the list if everybody would write something to the film and to the list in general.
Like if i would do one(which i am still far away from…):
4(or something in the top10).Django (franco nero etc) even if it has its flaws it is the movie I think of when I think of spaghettis. The gritty image of the town, the real bad bad guy, and the coffin. This let me rank it that high even if there are complete story lines which are bad in my eyes.
This would be an example, but then this topic would completely turn into a discussion rather than into the list of each ones top20 lists.
Interesting Valenciano as you noted compiling a TOP 20 or TOP 50 is not easy because
there is little “difference” between say my number 11 and my number 21 I LOVE SWs
and am looking always to praise and defend them against twisted critics as you know.
DJANGO 66 with Franco Nero is as you said a major, iconic, class SW and it has images
that are memorable and lasting. I am a major fan of FRANCO NERO (Italy’s best actor_
and have the film at number 23 (could have been higher but I value REVENGE SW more).
I hope we see your TOP 20 soon with many different Films and actors. :
[quote=“valenciano, post:422, topic:190”]You see SD there is something we can have a common ground. I allways felt the top 20 list should have ones favourite spaghettis in it. To make a list of the 20 most important or best SW´s is hard and stupid in my eyes. But in general I would appreciate in the list if everybody would write something to the film and to the list in general.
Like if i would do one(which i am still far away from…):
4(or something in the top10).Django (franco nero etc) even if it has its flaws it is the movie I think of when I think of spaghettis. The gritty image of the town, the real bad bad guy, and the coffin. This let me rank it that high even if there are complete story lines which are bad in my eyes.
This would be an example, but then this topic would completely turn into a discussion rather than into the list of each ones top20 lists.[/quote]
Still a good idea, Valenciano. Everybody has surprising titles in his Top 20 list and should say something about at least one, preferably on the film’s Thread (so on this thread we can concentrate on people’s favourite lists, not individual films)
Django isn’t really a surprise title, of course, but I’m sure you have one or two lesser known spags that are nervertheless precious to you. For me those films are BANDIDOS, I VIGLIACCHI NON PREGANO (Cowards don’t pray) and PISTOLEROS. I’ll write something about the last film in the near future; first I want to rewatch it.
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:421, topic:190”]The SWs like “Companeros”, “Day Of Anger” , “Big Gundown” “TGS” I of course like
and appreciate very much but maybe NOT as much as I love a sadistic revenge SW :o
I disagree about VENGEANCE 68 where Richard Harrison is as always heroic/appealing
and the plot is nicely paced to a conclusion.
JOE FIND A PLACE TO DIE 1969 I thought that JEFF HUNTER was perfectly cast and
PASCALE PETIT his leading lady was both sexy, sensual, dramatic and believable.
The supporting cast was also well chosen and I was very happy with the film.[/quote]
Films like COMPAñEROS etc. versus SADISTIC REVENGE SW:
Point taken
VENGEANCE :
I don’t say it’s bad; I just thought it wasn’t as good as it could have been; especially the finale was a let-down to me, but then again, I don’t like those finales in which the protagonists are stalking each other for quite some time, in the dark, in a barn, in a grotto etc., so it’s obviously a matter of personal taste. Still, talking about Gothic SWs, I think I VIGLIACCHI NON PREGANO (mentioned above) is a better choice. There’s also a ‘stalking finale’, but at least it’s not so protracted. And it has Garko and Rassimov in unusual parts.
JOE, CERCATI UN POSTO PER MORIRE :
No problems with Jeff. And his leading lady, Pascale Petit, was of course sexy, but I don’t think Thespian qualities quite matched her physical ones, so to speak. Anyway, the film didn’t work for me, but I found out that you’re not the only one to appreciates it, Tom Betts (Tom B. I suppose) is quite positive about the film on the EUROWESTERN site.
[quote=“scherpschutter, post:424, topic:190”]Still a good idea, Valenciano. Everybody has surprising titles in his Top 20 list and should say something about at least one, preferably on the film’s Thread (so on this thread we can concentrate on people’s favourite lists, not individual films)
Django isn’t really a surprise title, of course, but I’m sure you have one or two lesser known spags that are nervertheless precious to you. For me those films are BANDIDOS, I VIGLIACCHI NON PREGANO (Cowards don’t pray) and PISTOLEROS. I’ll write something about the last film in the near future; first I want to rewatch it.[/quote]
Yes that is what i meant. And my example would be then:
Tepepa:
I like zapata´s in general and this one is one of my favourites. Great milian and the differences between the main actors have real reason not like in companyeros where they dislike each other but that is it.
Untill the ending which has no duel that would fit it is a film that i value due to its story and main characters, especially that tepepa is a hero in a way but also a very bad guy.
I wrote more the film allready in its thread. But that is what i would like to see in everybodies list.
I’m gonna try and do a favourites list seeing as I just found a top ten I wrote a while back.
For a Few Dollars More
…(there will be no more Leone’s now. It’s just that I think that this is so perfect. AFOD and AFODyna don’t come near - altho’ they are still great; TGTBaTU is overblown in comparison (but still great) and I hardly see OUATITW as a spaghetti at all. (Of course it is really, but it’s so epic … unbelievably good - one of the best Westerns ever - but that’s it … it’s crossed a border for me - Leone finally made the film that took him out of this genre. In my view just because he’s Italian and it’s a Western does not mean that this is a spaghetti - OK it is, but fuck it, it aint going in anyway.
Django
Cemetery without Crosses
Face to Face
The Big Silence
A Bullet for the General
The Return of Ringo
Django Kill
God Forgives … I Don’t
$10,000 for a Massacre
Keoma
El Puro
A Man Called Sledge
The Big Gundown
The Hellbenders
A Man Called Blade
California
Duel in the Eclipse
The Dirty Outlaws
Blood at Sundown/$1000 on the Black
This isn’t my list of most important s.w. - it’s those that have probably given me most enjoyment or have had some weird lasting haunting quality. Usually the latter. I’ll reason why about some of the inclusions/exclusions if I provoke a response or need to explain myself - but a beer beckons me now - that was tiring work ;).
I hardly see OUATITW as a spaghetti at all. (Of course it is really, but it's so epic ... unbelievably good - one of the best Westerns ever - but that's it ... it's crossed a border for me - Leone finally made the film that took him out of this genre. In my view just because he's Italian and it's a Western does not mean that this is a spaghetti - OK it is, but fuck it, it aint going in anyway.
True, this is one of those “grey area” films!
Besides other things it has some leading Hollywood stars in the cast and parts of it were even shot in the USA.
[quote=“Reverend Danite, post:427, topic:190”]I’m gonna try and do a favourites list seeing as I just found a top ten I wrote a while back.
For a Few Dollars More
…(there will be no more Leone’s now. It’s just that I think that this is so perfect. AFOD and AFODyna don’t come near - altho’ they are still great; TGTBaTU is overblown in comparison (but still great) and I hardly see OUATITW as a spaghetti at all. (Of course it is really, but it’s so epic … unbelievably good - one of the best Westerns ever - but that’s it … it’s crossed a border for me - Leone finally made the film that took him out of this genre. In my view just because he’s Italian and it’s a Western does not mean that this is a spaghetti - OK it is, but fuck it, it aint going in anyway.
Django
Cemetery without Crosses
Face to Face
The Big Silence
A Bullet for the General
The Return of Ringo
Django Kill
God Forgives … I Don’t
$10,000 for a Massacre
Keoma
El Puro
A Man Called Sledge
The Big Gundown
The Hellbenders
A Man Called Blade
California
Duel in the Eclipse
The Dirty Outlaws
Blood at Sundown/$1000 on the Black
This isn’t my list of most important s.w. - it’s those that have probably given me most enjoyment or have had some weird lasting haunting quality. Usually the latter. I’ll reason why about some of the inclusions/exclusions if I provoke a response or need to explain myself - but a beer beckons me now - that was tiring work ;).[/quote]
I think it would be an interesting exercise to compile a seperate top twenty ‘non Leone’ list. For me, if it’s a genuine all in top twenty it has to include all of the master’s films but if that is a given why not have a list which considers those films as a seperate group. In other words, say ‘OK there are the Leone’s, obviously, but these are my favourites other than those’.
As it stands there are a number of films which don’t get ‘points’ because of the space taken up by the usual 5. It would be interesting to see which are the top rated films without that competition.
[quote=“Phil H, post:431, topic:190”]I think it would be an interesting exercise to compile a seperate top twenty ‘non Leone’ list. For me, if it’s a genuine all in top twenty it has to include all of the master’s films but if that is a given why not have a list which considers those films as a seperate group. In other words, say ‘OK there are the Leone’s, obviously, but these are my favourites other than those’.
As it stands there are a number of films which don’t get ‘points’ because of the space taken up by the usual 5. It would be interesting to see which are the top rated films without that competition.[/quote]
Numbers 6 to 10 maybe?
No, why exclude the Leone SWs? I don’t like lists which are excluding important films.
If we want to see which SWs are also of interest, we should expand our lists up to 30, 40, or 50 films.
Well, I would like to see carefully assembled top 50 lists of everybody who has seen a great amount of SWs. Let’s say above 200, which should of course include nearly every so called “important” SW.
And of course these list should be made out of our island films, not the ones we think are important, but don’t like. For me there is by the way no difference between these categories. The films I like most are the ones which i would also consider as the most important. Every boring films is automatically not important.
Already there is this list at Fatmandan.de which includes now 40 Top 40 lists, but I don’t know if most of the voters have seen more than the usual suspects.
Is there an interest by forum members to compile top 50 lists?
Fair point, but what I meant was that as it stands our list only counts points for each top 12 (at least I think that’s how it works) of the 20. So with Leone’s taking 5 of those spots for most people there are lots of films in people’s top 20’s that don’t get counted at all. Therefore, it might be interesting to see how they would pan out without the Leone films’ dominant position.
I’m not suggesting we discard the current system. Just add another one, for fun, to see what other films are popular with everyone.
No they don’t:
“A note on the points system: The top 12 films from each list were scored using the following formula (suggested by users): #1=12 points; #2=11 points; #3=10 points, etc. For those with incomplete or unorganized lists, 1 point was awarded for each entry.”
[quote=“stanton, post:430, topic:190”]But OUTW is a SW in nearly every aspect! No doubt about it. No grey area in this one.
THE SW.[/quote]
I’m sort of agreeing with you on this and argueing against myself. There’s no doubt that this is - either …the pinnacle of what spaghetti westerns are - or it somehow transcends through the genre into something else. I tend to fall (as I believe the film does), into the second category. But this is a totally subjective and personal feeling. I watched (On T.V. in the mid 70s ???) - Face to Face, Django, Adios Sabata, (maybe, A Town called Bastard) and some others, in my youth.
Since then, I’ve seen a fair few more - and nothing (including Leone’s other films) prepared me for OUATITW. Having seen, maybe 100 or so s.w. before I finally plucked up courage to watch this (I needed to distance myself from the mixed reports and the hype) - I was completely blown away. On one thread - we talk about El Puro, a cheap and underrated brilliant film - and then we have this EPIC! (Sorry - needed SD-type capitals there). They are different animals in a lot of ways. Of course, like with dna - we are closer to an amoeba than we aren’t … but something in my psyche says this cannot go in my top 20 … it’s just evolved into something other than a s.w. - Leone finally got to America (in more than one sense).
except for T.Hill/B.Spencer ???