But…but…, why not?
I think, Django Unchained and Hateful 8 should be allowed to enter the genre.
But…but…, why not?
Both are definitely US Westerns, and even if QT was influenced by Spags, their style is doubtless not very spagish. Only in some minor parts.
QT has always made his own thing, and despite his films can always be understood as homages to that film or that genre, his films are in the end very different from those whom he paid homage.
Well, exactly, [quote=“stanton, post:2650, topic:190”]
and despite his films can always be understood as homages to that film or that genre, his films are in the end very different from those whom he paid homage.
Personally, I would discard all that homage thing, and consider them modern SWs. Even if homages, why can’t a homage be considered a proper movie in that particular genre. I understand, that as a homage it somehow stands out, but why not have them in, really. Yes, QT always made his own thing, but that can be said about many spag directors. At least, H8 is not a homage at all imo. If done in seventies by a director with italian name (and some ita ancestors backing it up) and Morricone, it would be certainly considered spagh, such as many not so spagish Sws are.
A year ago, we even voted for Uncle Quentin to get into SW Hall of Fame.
Well, I feel ehm, ehm, that H8 won’t be allowed to stay in anyway, so I chose an alternative.
Would an update to the official top 20 be worth an announcement? Who is currently doing the math on it? Any substantial changes?
You raise a valid point since where one genre begins and ends is very nebulous. Perhaps we need a term like “Neo-SW” to go along with all those “Neo-Noir” films that are often categorized as “Film Noir”.
Yes, certainly, neoSW sounds good.
I’m afraid it wouldn’t. To be classed as a Spaghetti Western it needs to be European. Someone having Italian ancestors wouldn’t have cut it back then either.
For me QT’s westerns are clearly US ones, in origin AND in style.
We also don’t count European westerns which are not really part of the SW cycle. Which means all Spanish ones are doubtless in, all Karl May westerns not, even if some of them have an Italian Co-producer.
Italian or Spanish westerns do not need to have visible Spagie elements to be part of the list, but westerns from other European countries only count if they are rather spagish (like Cemetery without Crosses).
That were the rules, that are the rules.
While I wouldn’t include anything by Tarantino for those reaons, unless of course a “Neo SW” category is introduced to parallel “Neo Noir” as noted above, I do disagree with some of the details. As I mentioned in another thread, I would treat Fago’s “O’ Cangaceiro” (with apostrophe) as part of the SW genre but not the original “O Cangaceiro” (without apostrophe) by Lima Barreto. I would also treat Hossein’s “Taste of Violence” as an SW along with “Cemetery without Crosses”.
That’s how it is done. But both are borderliners. Like a few others.
Even if personally I still don’t have Taste of Violence in my list, as it is not a western for me. But Fago’s Cangaceiro was made as apart of the SW cycle, and contains at least enough SW elements.
Isn’t it number 79 on your Spaghetti Westerns for a better world list?
Then I copied it together with the other films from my excel list. At the end there are probably some comedies (by Clucher and the 2nd Provvidenza film, yes?) and this one, which are all not real Spags for me.
Btw, where did I post that list?
But if viewed as a Spag it would be in my top 20
It’s on your staff profile I regularly stalk all your profiles, it’s a hobby. Great list regardless!
Oh, I even don’t remember posting it there. And then it is already a few years old.
This staff list is also not an actual one.
China 9, Liberty 37 is definitely a US western, and shouldn’t be there either. But I see I have the Clucher films as part of the list, and not at the end.
If qualified, then The Taste of Violence could slither its way into my top 20 also. Phenomenal film!
Well, my opinion is such that if a director, despite he is not Italian, states he made a film in a tradition of spaghetti westerns or is heavily influenced by them, it might be considered a spagh. In this manner, the way to include some new westerns as spaghs would be open. For me the approach that only italian westerns should be considered as spaghs is problematic, at least nowadays.
But don’t worry, I understand your statement, Stanton and I already prepared a spagh for the position no. 14.
Yes. It is Fat Brothers of Trinity.
And btw, i disagree on this. There’s a lot of origin and style of spaghs in it. Even in Inglorious bastards.
Then I demand to exclude OUTITW from the list. Plenty of US actors, plenty of US filming locations, Paramount backed it up… Very european flick.
Hey, and what about this wiki blurp about Leone’s intentions😄: “Leone’s intent was to take the stock conventions of the American Westerns of John Ford, Howard Hawks and others, and rework them in an ironic fashion, essentially reversing their intended meaning in their original sources to create a darker connotation. The most obvious example of this is the casting of veteran film good guy Henry Fonda as the villainous Frank, but there are also many other, more subtle reversals throughout the film. According to film critic and historian Christopher Frayling, the film quotes from as many as 30 classic American Westerns.”
Well, isn’t Outitw an homage in its own perverse ironic way to US wrsterns after all?
But I don’t insist on it.
OUTW is an Italian production, even if Paramount gave most of the money. And most of the film was shot in Spain, only some scenes in the USA.
And that Spags copy US westerns happened very often in the early days of the sub-genre. And US actors were also very often used.
Everything you name for OUTW fits for lots of other Spags also.
So you can insist day and night …
Pffr, even Spain. That movie is hardly a spagh…
Looks like this is about to descend into that rabbit hole regarding which movies come from which countries. This is why both the BFI and AFI can both put “Lawrence of Arabia” in their top-10 movies!
My opinion is that the cultural milieu in which the director is operating dictate the nationality. So for me, OUATITW is an Italian film while “Lawrence of Arabia” is a British film; Barreto’s “O Cangaceiro” is a Brazilian film (influenced by American Westerns) while Fago’s “O’ Cangaceiro” is an Italian film (and a Spaghetti Western).