The Westerns of Alberto Mariscal


(autephex) #41

Well well well, I started scanning through this DVD and the VHS to look for scene differences, and upon reaching the credits I decided to check the opening title and notice the text is in French, along with the French title:

So then I was hunting for info on this French tape to find out why its in Spanish with no subtitles… couldn’t really find any info at first but then saw that an Italian blog I had visitedhttp://malastranavhs.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/occhio-per-occhio-dente-per-dentesei-fregato-cobra/ previously is reviewing the French tape, mentions the same title (Vengeance pour un colt) and even provides screenshots from the tape. It also mentions that the audio is indeed in Spanish. (Still very odd to me there is no French subtitles present? The quality on this dvd is a bit sharper and more clear, perhaps whoever made the DVD actually used the source print and not ripped from the VHS. Seems surely that a French VHS would contain burned in French subs for all Spanish audio)

What do you think? :smiley:

French VHS:

DVD:

Upon further comparing some more shots on that blog, this DVD is definitely using the same print except the image is much clearer with more detail. Either they captured from a VHS in great condition, or used the source print (although still not much better than VHS quality). In any case, looks like no longer necessary to consider the French VHS.


(autephex) #42

Had my suspicions that the US VHS was cut to make less violent, specifically had one scene in mind which is on the back of the French VHS and also a screenshot on that Italian blog linked above. I didn’t recall seeing this scene when I watched it.

Sure enough, it is cut from the US VHS, and from just an initial scanning of the beginning, appears the shooting at the start may be very slightly cut also. So I would assume there are probably several cuts like this which make up the additional 4.5 minutes of footage.

Dude gets shot in the eye (cut from US VHS):

(Now we know why this US release used the alternate title, Taste of the Savage, instead of Eye for an Eye)


(autephex) #43

Hmmm just when you think the mystery is solved, received this response from the ebay seller with the French VHS tape listed:

hello, the image is in cinemascope screen (not full screen) it is very good and the VHS has a duration of 105 minutes

Cinemascope ? From what I understand, that is a widescreen picture basically… strange… and 105 min? That’s like an additional 20 minutes of footage on top of the longer 85minute cut on this DVD. I wonder if all 105 min is actually the film because that’s quite a lot of additional footage, if so.

IMDB lists a runtime of 86 min which matches the DVD, not that IMBD is necessarily accurate.

(Edit…)

Cineteca Nacional (National Film Archives of Mexico) also lists a runtime of only 86 minutes, so I’m going to say that’s probably correct and this seller saying runtime is 105 min is just including whatever else may be on the tape like previews, warnings and blank footage or something… not sure what to make of the cinemascope thing, never really heard of a VHS being in cinemascope, but if this DVD was cropped from the full cinemascope image, then that may explain the lack of subtitles.


(ENNIOO) #44

Yes I would agree he is including the trailers etc for the total running time.

Some vhs are in widescreen ratios, but most of my vhs tapes have cropped down widescreen ratios compared to the films correct widescreen ratio.


(JonathanCorbett) #45

The original credits say “Filmed in Panavision”.

Being El sabor de la venganza a 1969 production (always according to the opening credits, for IMDb the film was released in Mexico in April 1971), this means a 2,35:1 projection AR: modern anamorphic became 2,39:1 only in 1970.


(autephex) #46

Which version of this film do you have, JonathanCorbett?

thanks for posting the italian poster also, was helpful in finding info on some of these films to know they were marketed in Italy with Italian titles. A good poster as well, may even buy this one as an ebayer curently has for sale

still considering the French vhs if it actually has widescreen picture, even tho probably not as clear as the Dvd

And Jonathan always seems to have mysterious Tv prints :wink:


(JonathanCorbett) #47

A 4:3 copy with Spanish audio only circulating on YouTube some time ago, runtime 84m32s including the eye scene.

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[url=http://postimage.org/index.php?lang=italian]http://postimage.org/


(autephex) #48

Interesting, looks like the US vhs print except if it has Spanish audio it must be a Mexican tape or the one from Spain.

And then there is the Greek vhs in English available on dvdr, need to check again if that runtime is uncut and if widescreen


(autephex) #49

I guess I should start adding all this info to databases on the internet, as I’m finding all kinds of titles for these films that aren’t listed anywhere except the hard to find VHS cover images :smiley:

Venganza Salvaje - 82min - Madrid Topacio Home Vídeo 1986

This one is on youtube:

I am attempting to download an avi rip of the same source from emule, but not holding my breath as only one uploader and they aren’t connecting.

Screenshots from this release here:
http://terrorfantastico.com/foro/index.php?topic=17751.0

Sabor Salvaje- Argentina - 87min:



(can’t find any images larger than this, the first one is only available in google image search as a thumbnail, but was able to find one site that listed a bit of info about the tape including listed runtime)

A Taste of the Savage - Australia - 81min King of Video


(autephex) #50

Managed to find a very small resolution rip of a Mexican VHS, with original credits:

“Filmed in Panavision” referenced by JonathanCorbett:

The common anamorphic widescreen film format in use today is commonly called 'Scope or 2.35:1 (the latter being a misnomer born of old habit). Filmed in Panavision is a phrase contractually required for films shot using Panavision's anamorphic lenses. All of these phrases mean the same thing: the final print uses a 2:1 anamorphic projector lens that expands the image by exactly twice the amount horizontally as vertically. This format is essentially the same as that of CinemaScope, except for some technical developments.

So I guess it is possible that the actual French VHS is some kind of widescreen image, and now I’m curious about it as no other source seems to be widescreen and they are all instead poorly cropped fullscreen pictures.

This is hilarious, every time I find a new version the panning is always different:

Mexican VHS:

US DVD w/ French print:

US VHS:

Spain Topacio VHS:


(autephex) #51

Uh oh, looks like may have a purchase on my hands :stuck_out_tongue: Emailed seller of the French tape and was nice enough to photograph his TV for me:



Also received a reply from Trash Palace that the Greek tape/DVDR is 82 minutes and full screen.


(JonathanCorbett) #52

Miracles of pan and scan, LOL.

This format is essentially the same as that of CinemaScope, except for some technical developments.

At the beginning in 1953 Cinemascope had a projection AR of 2,55:1, that at a later stage (1957) became 2,35:1.

Both early Panavision systems (MGM Camera 65 and Ultra Panavision) on the other hand had a 2,76:1 projection AR, while the so-called ‘Modern anamorphic’, originally 2,35:1, became 2,39:1 in 1970.

Great quality!


(autephex) #53

Yeah that widescreen picture includes quite a lot more than any of the cropped fullscreen versions… hard to tell from the photos, but looks like the picture is probably not as clear as the DVD I have, but I think that’s a trade off I could live with… The DVD is also pretty faded in the colors anyway…

Went ahead and ordered the tape :stuck_out_tongue: Gotta wait for the seller to confirm shipping…

Still not sure about what audio track is on this VHS, if it is in French or Spanish… hopefully it is a French dub with subtitle free picture


(ENNIOO) #54

Good work Autephex on all the details on these versions. Its keeping my mind ticking over in overtime :slight_smile:


(autephex) #55

Haha, you’re telling me! :smiley: Being a bit obsessive about these films, I am. These are some of the best unknown spaghetti-related westerns I’ve seen though, I can’t believe there isn’t more interest in them. They have all the spaghetti fixings, and they’re way better than the usual forgotten about stuff.

Have now received shipping confirmation on the French tape. Not sure how soon I will be able to transfer since will have to first get a SECAM capable VCR. Luckily, there is at least one seller on ebay currently listing multi-system VCRs at a rate much lower than seems typical (although still not cheap). I’m enjoying hunting for these VHS tapes though, I think I’ll make a hobby out of it, starting with any Mariscal titles waiting to be liberated :smiley:

Have been half-assed learning Spanish for a bit, may even try to do my own subtitles as a learning tool unless I can find someone to do them.


(autephex) #56

A memorial to 60 years of cinema in Durango (Mexico), right in the middle of the Twin Bridges, North Corridor. The monument is illuminated at night

http://www.elsiglodedurango.com.mx/noticia/fotos.php?nota=527373


(ENNIOO) #57

Totally agree. The Reverend got me interested in the directors westerns. People who do not give these films a chance are missing out big style in my view.


(ENNIOO) #58

Just viewed The Hanging Judge again. Super atmosphere to the film with our troubled lead doing his duty. Forgot about the ending, which does suit the character and film. Those dream style sequences will be in my head for a while now.


(ENNIOO) #59

[quote=“autephex, post:37, topic:3421”]Also received this today ;D

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Are you going to have a go at doing the subtitles yourself for this one down the line Autephex ?

Just come across the poster for Le Quattro Croci di El Paso :slight_smile: :

[URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/ENNIOO1/media/_57_zpsa172b51b.jpg.html]

http://imgur.com/73pvvNu


(Bad Lieutenant) #60

Nice locandina!

Photoshopped it a little: