Spaghetti Western Bible Vol 1 (Grindhouse Experience)


(autephex) #1

just picked this up tonight… wasn’t expecting a lot, considering 5 of the 10 movies in this set are not even westerns…

but there are a few rarer titles, which were mentioned in a previous thread here…

what i’m wondering is, is if Viva Django is cut at all

i currently own the Denmark release of Viva Django and it runs at 1 hour 28 mins.

Viva Django on this US release runs 1 hour 27 mins… the Denmark release is PAL, so it as I understand it, the US release should have a shorter runtime than a PAL release. If its only shorter by a minute, I’m guessing its either the same, or includes more footage. I know the German release is completely uncut, but I’m not sure of its runtime at the moment… anyone else have this release or possibly able to help shed some light on if this new US release is cut?

The picture is actually pretty decent. The colors are quite a bit more vibrant than the Denmark disc… however, the audio is screwed… the audio comes out of the right channel ONLY for Viva Django… ugghhh… enough to make me want to rip it off, correct the audio and burn my own disc for it.

the other westerns i bought this release for are absolute crap in terms of quality, but we’ve all learned to deal with that by now…

all in all, a pretty shoddy release… but at least i have a couple more spaghettis i did not previously own…

And as a side… this is NOT a Grindhouse Releasing release… its just some shoddy company trying to cash in on the Grindhouse name…


(autephex) #2

so i guess i had that backwards

looks like PAL discs have a shorter runtime than NTSC discs… so Viva Django having a runtime of 1 hour 27 mins on this US release means it is most definitely cut, having a 2 minute shorter runtime than the uncut German disc(German release runs 1 hour 29 mins according to amazon)

shame… really was the only title on this set that made me feel the $15 was worth it… now if i can just figure out what is cut… hopefully its not missing any real meat


(autephex) #3

little more information on this…

found a runtime converter for PAL to NTSC to help shed some light here…

http://www.paradiso-design.net/videostandards_en.html

According to this tool, this new US release of Viva Django is missing 3.36 minutes compared to the uncut 89 minute German PAL release. The exact runtime on the Grindhouse Experience US release is 87 mins 58 seconds, whereas the German PAL release is 89 mins.

87 mins 58 seconds in NTSC(USA) video converts to 84 mins 22 seconds in PAL video, so we’re missing 3 minutes 36 seconds here.

For some information on the other western titles in this set…

Tedeum is included with a runtime of 92 mins 18 seconds. I have a PAL version of Tedeum which runs 92 mins 11 seconds. 92 mins 11 seconds in PAL converts to 96 mins 7 seconds NTSC. So despite both versions of Tedeum I have being almost identical looking, poor quality VHS rips, this new Gringhouse Experience release seems to be missing 4 minutes from the PAL version I have. For some further detail, the PAL version of Tedeum I have contains hardcoded Finnish subtitles, and is a bit sharper on the image. This US Grindhouse Experience release looks about the same, but no subtitles and it is blurry looking by comparison.

The other titles included are…

Trinity and Bambino, which is Sons of Trinity

Jesse and Lester

Revenge of Trinity

and Trinity goes East is not remotely a western, is a newer title, and looks pretty horrible- except for i saw a review which said the martial arts are decent… which looks possible, but i don’t know that i will ever try to watch this one. The box claims its “the last and best incarnation of the Trinity franchise” - although it is not a western. It does not even appear to be a East Meets West or Sword and Sandals flick.

The remaining titles have nothing to do with spaghettis. They simply feature Terrence Hill or Bud Spencer.

The lamest excuse for something bearing the title of “Spaghetti Western Bible” I’ll probably ever see… although I’m curious to see if there will be a volume 2, and I’m at least happy to have Jesse & Lester, Revenge of Trinity, and Sons of Trinity, despite the absolutely horrid quality.

still seeking to find what is cut from Viva Django, as I do not own the German release and the video quality is better than the Danish release I have.


(autephex) #4

ok, so i just finished watching the new USA Grindhouse Experience Spaghetti Western Bible release of Viva Django…

I set one TV on top of another, and had this release playing simultaneously with the Denmark(Carat) release. As far as I could tell, there are no cut scenes in the US release compared to the Denmark/Carat release.

I’m not quite sure how to explain this, as one is PAL and the other is NTSC, and as the two have different frame rates they would have to have a difference in runtime… however the 2 seem to sync up perfectly, and continue to sync through the entire picture.

I did notice that the US release contains the Italian text during the credits, and at the end displays “FINE”, whereas the Denmark release displays English text during the credits and “THE END” at the end… this is the only area i can think of, where maybe the English credits run slightly longer at the very start of the film… other than that I am at a loss with to explain…

maybe there are techniques to convert PAL to NTSC while preserving the original runtime that I am not aware of…

anyway, long post but the point is, as far as i can tell this release is uncut compared to the Denmark(Carat) release.

by that, I’d say the disc is well worth the $15 price(got mine from best buy) for Viva Django alone, if you don’t own the German or SPO release. And if you can stomach some of the worst quality video out there, you also get a few rare titles as well.


(Phil H) #5

I’ve never personally seen Tedeum but from what I’ve heard cutting a few minutes off it wouldn’t do it any harm :wink:


(Stanton) #6

It’s not that easy with the runtimes.

Many of the Wildeast SWs are in NTSC but have Pal runtimes, e.g. Requiescant.

Also several of the japanese DVDs have Pal runtimes.

On the other hand there are also a few german DVDs which have NTSC runtimes, e.g. Companeros (the uncut DVD) and Run Man Run. In the case of Companeros the Marketing DVD (slightly cut) has a Pal runtime.


(autephex) #7

haha… i haven’t watched it yet, but I have a feeling you are correct

hmm… interesting. So do you know if somehow the PAL framerate can stay the same on an NTSC video? I don’t understand how a NTSC video can have a PAL runtime, when NTSC has a different framerate than PAL…


(Tigrero) #8

I am guessing a bit here but this is how I read it.
A NTSC vid can have either or runtime. So can a PAL vid. The different framerate is the point. They are filmed at different rates. The NTSC runtime would be how long it took to play on an NTSC player and the pal runtime would be how long it took to play on a PAL player. So if someone is selling a NTSC vid in a region that uses PAL they may put the PAL runtime on the cover because that is how long it would take to play in that region (slightly faster than the realtime it was filmed in).

Hence confusion because a film could be sold in two different regions with two different runtimes when it is in fact the same copy. The asumption may often be that an NTSC film will have an NTSC runtime on the cover whatever. People then think they have a cut film in the PAL region cos the stated runtime is shorter.


(Stanton) #9

I don’t understand it either.

The 1st koch DVD of Quien sabe! runs 118 min, the new one 113 min, both are of course excactly the same uncut versions. And both run excacly the times which are stated on the covers.

Maybe for the first one Koch used a NTSC master, while the 2nd one was mastered by themselves for the Pal standard.
So it’s maybe the same as if you watch a region free NTSC DVD on a Pal DVD-player.


(Tigrero) #10

Alright…I give in. How the hell does that work.


(Phil H) #11

I suspect it’s a wormhole in the time / space continuum. :wink:
Ask your missus Tig. It’s the sort of thing a Trekkie will understand.


(Tigrero) #12

I might have an answer but this could get complicated. I will try to simplify things so please do not think I am insulting anyones intelligence.

Film is shot at 24 frames per sec. To project this at a cinema light is flashed in sequence with each frame of film to project the image onto the screen. Easy.
To transmit this film on the television is not so simple. The NTSC television system uses 525 lines of picture information in each frame. PAL uses 625 lines. A scan from film uses odd lines of info and even lines of info to create interlaced frames. To convert the film images NTSC scans 60 interlaced frames per sec which in effect creates 30 frames per sec. PAL scans 50 interlaced frames to give an effective frame rate of 25 per sec.
What we have so far then is film running at 24 fps, NTSC at 30 fps and PAL at 25 fps. This is where the complications set in.
To convert film to PAL uses a simple speed up from 24 to 25 i.e. each film frame is converted to 2 interlaced frames to give 1 PAL frame.
To convert from film to NTSC requires a 3:2 pulldown which is a complex process. Each frame of film is alternately scanned to 3 interlaced then 2 interlaced frames. Which in effect creates the conversion from 24 fps to 30 fps.

Where the Koch releases of the same film differ in runtime could possibly be down to the same master being converted differently for each release. Like Stanton said the first could have been mastered to the NTSC standard and the second to the PAL standard without the pulldown.

Yes there are. Some modern DVD players can automatically convert from PAL to NTSC by slowing down to 24 fps and using the 3:2 pulldown and computer software does exist for doing same and vice versa.

That’s it I will shut up.

Edit : No I won’t. What I should have said is that although NTSC runs at 30 fps the pulldown factor means you are still watching at the films normal cinematic speed, if that makes sense, so PAL is still showing about 4% faster than NTSC and so a shorter runtime.


(korano) #13

Jus got this one. What really puzzles me is that it looks like the releasing company put more money into the fancy cover than they did into the actual restoration process! Especially the Trinity Sees Red.

Is there going to be anymore releases form this company.THAT ARE ACTUALLY SPAGHETTI WESTERNS!!! COULD CARE LESS ABOUT KID STUFF!


(ENNIOO) #14

They will be releasing a volume 2 soon I think.


(autephex) #15

http://www.spaghetti-western.net/forum/index.php/topic,1663.0.html
:wink:

[quote=“korano, post:13, topic:1384”]What really puzzles me is that it looks like the releasing company put more money into the fancy cover than they did into the actual restoration process!
COULD CARE LESS ABOUT KID STUFF![/quote]

haha! well said korano. The packaging for this release is great, nicer than a lot of the spaghettis i’ve bought. I think they just spent a bunch of money to make it look like its worth buying, and bam! gotch your money sucka! see ya!!!


(Søren) #16

Restoration process?? These releases are all just vhs-to-dvd transfers… I can assure you that no restoration is performed at all. But seeing that you get 10 movies for 13 bucks I don’t think you can expect much, do you?

How does Trinity Sees Red look? The Danish dvd is at least non-anamorphic widescreen.

Edit: Actually just ordered the set yesterday… Don’t expect much than a few additions to my Italian collections in probably not-that-good quality :slight_smile: Also ordered the newer Mercs’ set from the same company containing a lot of Italian action/war movies… Gotta be nice :slight_smile:


(autephex) #17

Looks horrible

only decent transfer is for Viva Django

i paid $17 retail for this release, and i still didn’t expect much… however, i think the complaints are valid. Most of the time, the packing for these kinds of releases reflects the quality: very poor. They obviously spent some money on the packaging, that they could of used to obtain better prints. Hell, even the Viva Django, which looks good is fucked on the audio, which could of been easily fixed: there’s only 1 channel of sound. Any amateur with a freeware audio editing program can fix this.

And I know there are better prints out there for these films, because I got ahold of them after buying this release…

Also, half the movies on the disc are not westerns and are not Trinity related- either they don’t belong there, or the set should of been titled something else. Another area where they could of saved money, not bothering with the stupid non-western-non-trinity movies and putting it into the other titles


(ENNIOO) #18

I was going to purchase the other night, and glad I did not.


(korano) #19

I paid $20 for mine. I was lurking through this music and DVD store and I happened to find this. Spaghetti Western DVD’s are VERY rare in the US. At least in stores while they are easily acquired on the internet. Except Leone’s films.

I saw in the same section The Magnificent Seven Box Set but my brother talked me into this one. I really want to see Trinity sees Red and Viva Django. I was hoping that Kid Stuf and Diamond Peddlers was just a atl title for the Carambola films which I’m interested in seeing.


(Søren) #20

Yes, that’s very interesting… The release is called Spaghetti Western Bible but on amazon and dvdpacific (and probably any other online retailer) it’s referred to as Grindhouse Presents Spaghetti Bible, that is lacking the western part which makes it a little more sensible title. ‘Bible’ is still pushing it a bit far of course seing that the movies whatever the quality are all more or less less important stuff in their genres.

I paid just under $13 for my copy by the way.