Spaghetti Rhyming Slang


(Reverend Danite) #1

[edit: COULD ALL THE NICE LADIES PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD AS IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THAT IT IS GOING TO CONTAIN PATHETICALLY IMMATURE WILLY AND FART JOKES. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!]

Cockney rhyming slang works like this …
It uses the first of a linked pair of words to stand for another word, whereby it is actually the second of the pair that rhymes.
For instance … “I went up the apples and went to bed”. The full version would be "I went up the apples and pears (stairs) and went to bed."
Another… “Can I have a butcher’s?” comes from "Can I have a butcher’s hook (look)?
Some more … “I don’t Adam it” … Adam and Eve - believe.
Pony (and Trap) - crap
Go for a Ruby (Murray) - curry.

You get the picture?

Anyway it’s some sort of code (you’ll have to ask Tigger), probably so no outsiders realised that they were all incestuous cannibles or summat …
but anyway, in Almeria, it was pretty obvious that a certain German got asking about the verbal antics of the fistful of (if not all cockneys) Londoners, at least.

If I remember thru the lager-addled sunstroke, some of our better efforts went like this …

“Phil, you’ll end up with a fistful of knuckles in the Lee Vans (Cleef - teeth) if you carry on like that.”

I’ll let you work out these two …

“Yod, if you start any more fights with the locals you’re likely to end up with a kick in the Eli’s from one of 'em.”

And this one from Tigger … “I’ll be down in a minute - I’m just having a quick Erika!!!” :smiley: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

Anybody wanna join in … (With the spaghetti rhymin’ that is)?


(Tigrero) #2

The East End of London being a bit overrun with villainous types it was a bit necessary for the locals to develop a code to stop the prying ears of the local constabulary from understanding wot they was talking about. Hence the development of cockney rhyming slang…a cockney being someone who is born within the sound of the Bow bells. Said bells are not in Bow church (Bow being an area in East London) as a few fools believe but are actually the bells of St. Mary-le-Bow church in Cheapside in the City of London.
A true cockney is someone not from the East side of Greater London but from the East End of London which is a smallish area in the eastern part of inner London. Many moons ago London consisted simply of The City Of London a small area of one square mile and a cockney was simply someone from London. With the development of The City Of Westminster to the West a cockney became someone from the East End of London.
With the fairly recent scrapping of London’s surrounding small counties and the inclusion of their towns and villages into Greater London the world and its brother claim to be Cockneys but it is still really only a small area in central London.
Oh and BTW the term cockney comes from middle English - Cocks neye - meaning Cock’s egg. Hens lay eggs not cocks so the term just meant anyone a bit odd. Later it shifted in meaning to someone from London and with growth of said city etc etc

Rev you’ve seen what I am like on beer and you still think I could manage a Horst??? The Duchess would like me to be that capable.


(AceHigh) #3

So, my question is are you guys(Rev & Tigrero) true cockneys? What about Phil H?


(AceHigh) #4

Just read on another thread the Rev says Tigrero is the one true cockney on this forum. Is that correct?


(Tigrero) #5

My family all say I am a true cockney and that is not to justify any claim they have cos except for my mum the rest definitely aint. They are from south of the Thames which aint really London town just part of the county of Greater London.
Personally I think it is stretching it a bit to claim I am a cockney.
In those early days when London consisted only of the City Of London the people of London were quite powerful as a body. The King had his seat of power at the South Eastern end of the city in the Tower Of London. If he peed off the London Mob they would up arms and send him packing back into the Tower for safety.
Literally butting up against London and the Tower were some small settlements along the river to the east called the Tower Hamlets. These hamlets came under the protection of the Tower and the people would be allowed to seek refuge in the Tower in times of strife. London was very small at this time (1 square mile) so distances to these hamlets were very small. I was born in the Tower Hamlets in their modern form. When I lived there I could easily walk to the city and past St. Mary-le-Bow church. Probably about two or three miles directly. On a very quiet day in 1066 one might of heard the bow bells from the house I was born in but as I say I think it is stretching it a bit.


(Reverend Danite) #6

Yes I have seen how Luigi you get after a few ales, and maybe dumpin’ yer Woody after the beer is beyond you, but it was you that was Jose Manuel all night and left the room a bit Nicoletta, to say the least! :wink:


(Phil H) #7

As Tig has so eloquently explained the historical definition of a ‘true’ cockney is really quite restrictive and in this day and age frankly a bit redundant. The racial make up of the average resident of the area of town in question has changed to such a degree that, to be honest, you’d be hard pushed to find a ‘true’ cockney born in the last thirty odd years who was not Bangladeshi. Consequently the term has become generic to all East Londoners and as such Tig and myself would be included I suppose. My own birthplace is a bit further east than Tig’s so I wouldn’t quite qualify by the old criteria but considering my family have been east Londoners for at least 200 years I’m happy to be considered one if someone wants to think of me as such.

Of course, for most brits born outside the city all Londoners are considered cockneys. Or more correctly, Cockney Bastards. Such is the esteem we are held in by our provincial brothers.


(Phil H) #8

[quote=“Reverend Danite, post:1, topic:1378”]Cockney rhyming slang works like this …
It uses the first of a linked pair of words to stand for another word, whereby it is actually the second of the pair that rhymes.
For instance … “I went up the apples and went to bed”. The full version would be "I went up the apples and pears (stairs) and went to bed."
Another… “Can I have a butcher’s?” comes from "Can I have a butcher’s hook (look)?
Some more … “I don’t Adam it” … Adam and Eve - believe.
Pony (and Trap) - crap
Go for a Ruby (Murray) - curry.

You get the picture?[/quote]

Can we have spaghetti rhyming slang which rhymes with regular rhyming slang?

If so, I’m just off for an Ennio.


(Tigrero) #9

Very funny Phil.

Agree with you about this cockney thing. It’s a bit archaic now and the concept should be consigned to history. London has changed so much. Hardly anyone lives in the City anymore. Whitechapel has had so many changes of racial make-up. Wapping is probably one of the last enclaves of long time London families in that area. I think we are all just East Enders these days and what with that dreadful TV show I am quite happy to ignore the fact.


(Reverend Danite) #10

Blimey, I thought we might get a few fart and willy jokes and we end up with a history and geography lesson about bleedin’ Landan Taarn.

[quote=“Phil H, post:8, topic:1378”]…If so, I’m just off for an Ennio.[/quote].
Ennio?

Ennio’l iron, Ennio’l iron? Another one of yer quaint li’l cockney knees-up songs cor blimey …

ANY OLD IRON
(old English Music Hall Song)
(Collins / Sheppard / Terry)

Recorded by:
Harry Champion; Chas & Dave; Ted Heath; Stanley Holloway
Davy Jones; George Martin; Old Bull & Bush; Peter Sellers.

Just a week or two ago my dear old Uncle Bill,
He went and kicked the bucket and he left me in his will.
So I went around the road to see my Auntie Jane.
She said, "your Uncle Bill has left you a watch and chain."
So I put it on right across my derby kell.
The sun was shining on it and it made me look a swell.
I went out, strolling round about.
A crowd of kiddies followed me and they began to shout,

“Any old iron? Any old iron?
Any, any, any old iron?
You look neat. Talk about a treat!
You look so dapper from your napper to your feet.
Dressed in style, brand-new tile,
And your father’s old green tie on.
But I wouldn’t give you tuppence for your old watch and chain,
Old iron, old iron.”

I won’t forget the day I went to London on the spree.
I saw the mayor of London there. That’s who I went to see.
He came along in a carriage and a pair.
I shouted, "come on, boys! All throw your hats up in the air."
Just then the mayor, he began to smile,
Pointed to my face and said, "Lor Lummy, what a dial!"
Started Lord-a-mayoring, and then to my dismay,
He pointed to my watch and chain and shouted to me, “Hey,
Any old iron? …”

I shan’t forget the day I married Miss Elisa Brown.
The way the people laughed at me, it made me feel a clown.
I arrived in a carriage called a hack,
When I suddenly discovered I’d my trousers front to back.
So I walked down the aisle, dressed in style,
The vicar took a look at me and then began to smile.
The organ started playing. The bells began to ring.
The people started laughing and the choir began to sing,
“Any old iron? …”

Kicked the bucket = died.
Derby kell = a portly chest/stomach.
A swell = a well off gentleman
Dial = Cockney slang for face

… or did you just mean Ennio Morricone … pony … pony and trap … crap ;D


(Tigrero) #11

Ennio’l iron…genius Rev.

Derby Kelly = Belly.

And I am astounded that you a man of the cloth would say cor blimey…it’s blasphemous. Means ‘God Blind Me’. Lor Lummy means something similar but I aint sure exactly what. I think ‘Lord Love Me’ but as you were quoting on this one I suppose it’s forgivablle…10 hail Marys for cor blimey.


(Phil H) #12

That’s the one :slight_smile:

Interesting to hear that George Martin recorded Any old Iron. Did Fernando Sancho do it too? :smiley:


(korano) #13

[quote=“AceHigh, post:4, topic:1378”]Just read on another thread the Rev says Tigrero is the one true cockney on this forum. Is that correct?[/quote]Tigrero, you definitley sound like a cockney. Feel like i’m talkin’ to Oliver Twist all grown up. (wink) Although I’m not fully English, my friends get a kick out of my cockney accent which, if I say so myself, is pretty good. Need to work on my Scottish one though. I’ve always found Englis English much “prettier” than US accents.


(AceHigh) #14

Whew, I have enough trouble with whatever form of English we have over here, now this thread! Ha Ha…the joke’s on me! I’m as confused right now as a bastard child at a family reunion!


(Phil H) #15

Well, Oliver Twist wasn’t a Cockney Korano. He was a workhouse boy from somewhere 7 days walk north of London so in reality probably would have spoken more like our dear Rev. However, you are right that Tig does sound a bit like Oliver. At least he does whenever he’s in a pub. “Please sir, can I have some more?” :smiley:


(Tigrero) #16

[quote=“Tigrero, post:9, topic:1378”]Very funny Phil.

Agree with you about this cockney thing. It’s a bit archaic now and the concept should be consigned to history. London has changed so much. Hardly anyone lives in the City anymore. Whitechapel has had so many changes of racial make-up. Wapping is probably one of the last enclaves of long time London families in that area. I think we are all just East Enders these days and what with that dreadful TV show I am quite happy to ignore the fact.[/quote]

Actually Phil I must point out an interesting fact about the way London has changed. In 1965 several areas outside London were incorporated as London boroughs. Amongst these was Leyton which previous to 1965 was in the county of Essex.
My birth certificate has me as being born in the London borough of Poplar which in 1965 was amalgamated with Stepney and Bethnal Green (I think) to form the new London borough of Tower Hamlets. If you were born before 1965 I should imagine your birth certificate would have you as born in Essex. So to say your family has lived in East London for the last 200 years may be misleading. They may have lived in Essex for the previous 155 years but they have only lived in London for the last 45 Years. These are the sorts of claims to Cockneydom that are made by non-cockneys. And this idea that cockney has become a generic term for anyone who lives in the East of London is also a claim only made by those very people. I think the proper definition still stands but over the last 45 years the cockney cowboys in the far Eastern reaches of old Essex have made such a determined effort to pretend they are in the club that the whole thing has become a joke.
The name Tower Hamlets (which include the well known cockney haunt of Jack The Ripper ie Whitechapel) has been in use since at least the 16th century. In 1605 East London was made a distinct military unit with the official name ‘Tower Hamlets’. Although I have always been reluctant to accept other peoples claim that I am a true cockney, having written all this and pondering it I think that perhaps they have a point. But anyway so what … I live in Norfolk.


(Phil H) #17

[quote=“Tigrero, post:16, topic:1378”]Actually Phil I must point out an interesting fact about the way London has changed. In 1965 several areas outside London were incorporated as London boroughs. Amongst these was Leyton which previous to 1965 was in the county of Essex.
My birth certificate has me as being born in the London borough of Poplar which in 1965 was amalgamated with Stepney and Bethnal Green (I think) to form the new London borough of Tower Hamlets. If you were born before 1965 I should imagine your birth certificate would have you as born in Essex. So to say your family has lived in East London for the last 200 years may be misleading. They may have lived in Essex for the previous 155 years but they have only lived in London for the last 45 Years. These are the sorts of claims to Cockneydom that are made by non-cockneys. And this idea that cockney has become a generic term for anyone who lives in the East of London is also a claim only made by those very people. I think the proper definition still stands but over the last 45 years the cockney cowboys in the far Eastern reaches of old Essex have made such a determined effort to pretend they are in the club that the whole thing has become a joke.
The name Tower Hamlets (which include the well known cockney haunt of Jack The Ripper ie Whitechapel) has been in use since at least the 16th century. In 1605 East London was made a distinct military unit with the official name ‘Tower Hamlets’. Although I have always been reluctant to accept other peoples claim that I am a true cockney, having written all this and pondering it I think that perhaps they have a point. But anyway so what … I live in Norfolk.[/quote]

You’re right Tig, my birth certificate does say Essex as Leyton was then included in that County. But it’s not as simple as that. I have grandparents and great grandparents born in Hackney, Mile End and Bethnal Green and their certificates all say county of Middlesex. These people were definitely not ‘mockneys’ by any stretch. It was just that in those days only the square mile was actually considered London. Even Shoreditch and Spitalfields where most of my clan are from originally was considered Middlesex and those areas are so close to the city you could work there and go home for your lunch.

All this aside, I’m a Londoner whichever way you shake it but have never considered myself a cockney. If Non Londoners call me a cockney I accept it as a generic term for all Londoners but, as I said before, I think the term is pretty redundant these days. But a Londoner? Yes, definitely. And proud of it. I’ve studied some family history and discovered that our lot (on both my parent’s sides) have all come from an area east of the city which stretches from Spitalfields to Leyton and until the current generation, no further. Unfortunately, like most residents of this side of town they all had the arse out of their trousers too. So no change there either. :wink:


(Tigrero) #18

This is just the sort of post I hoped you would come back with Phil.
I suspected it would not be that simple and that your family would be from all over East London. Mile End, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields and Shoreditch all bang on Cockneys guvnor. Hackneys getting a bit remote.
I was only using the Essex thing for the cockney rubbish. It’s not just boundaries or definitions, it’s the spirit of the thing as well. I agreed before it’s all rather redundant these days. To me your a Londoner through and through and have been all your life. I’ve spent probably less than half my life actually living there and would be quite happy if I never went there again. The history of London fascinates me but these days I just can’t stand the traffic and all the people. My brother loves the place and will never leave but I think I’m a country bumkin through and through. My name says it all…HICKS.


(scherpschutter) #19

Interesting, all this talk about cockney

I have the idea that you must be born a Londoner to do the trick
I have never heard of anything similar in any other language
The only thing I can come up with right now is:

I have to go to the Winny

I’ll be staying in London for a few days soon, so maybe I can pick up some slang overthere


(korano) #20

All I know is Bobby and peaches and pairs. Oh, and I think I know what “old fella” means. :wink: