You don’t sound like you really saw the release. Print quality was the worst Southern has pulled off. Lots of missing frames and scratches on picture. But you’re right in assuming that the movie probably wouldn’t have surfaced elsewhere. But come on, great quality? Certainly not.
This whole thread matter is quite absurd. Of course Naushad and many other sell SWs illegally (or more properly without rights). If you want them, buy them; if you don’t, by all means don’t. Or, if you want to get them for free, buy them, make a couple of copies yourself and sell them on eBay to recoup what you paid for them. In the end the important thing is that the titles are brought to their audience and that they are available. I think that Naushad or whoever is selling them should be making as much money as possible and bringing the best quality possible to the markets. I still don’t understand why him or anyone else don’t just rip off the magnificent Japanese versions of some that are available -at very high prices- and sell them for 5 bucks on eBay. It would be as legal as selling the Japanese, as they do, on the internet for 20 times that amount. Those guys, the Japanese, have the rights for the Japanese market ONLY and yet they’ll ship anywhere in the world, which should be equally illegal from the rights standpoint.
But since people here are fans hungry for those elusive good print quality (and in English) titles, the more available, the better.
Oh, and by the way, I have a couple hundred titles of spags that I am more than willing to trade for others that I don’t have so if anyone out there con offer me Murieta -I have a horrific version in Spanish, but the print is really unwatchable-, a good quality Unholy 4 (I have 2, one decent, one not very good) or the Franco Cleff Big Gundown (I have 4 other versions already), I can trade for anything that I have (and I have a lot to chose from). And all of it for free.
Live and let live, companeros.
There are certainly worse things going on in the world than some graymarket dealer selling copies of obscure spaghettiwesterns, no need to be so offended by this I think.
But we should first and foremost support the companies bringing out the high-quality restored stuff, this I’m sure everybody agrees on.
With companies you mean company of course 
Cannot think of anybody than Koch Media bringing out restored stuff these days (apart from the million Italian/French/Spanish releases which are no help to us not speaking those languages).
But yes, buy the damn stuff!
[quote=“Manco, post:42, topic:731”]In the end the important thing is that the titles are brought to their audience and that they are available.
I think that Naushad or whoever is selling them should be making as much money as possible and bringing the best quality possible to the markets.[/quote]I agree.
I still don't understand why him or anyone else don't just rip off the magnificent Japanese versions of some that are available -at very high prices- and sell them for 5 bucks on eBay. It would be as legal as selling the Japanese, as they do, on the internet for 20 times that amount. Those guys, the Japanese, have the rights for the Japanese market ONLY and yet they'll ship anywhere in the world, which should be equally illegal from the rights standpoint.You are joking, right? You can't compare ebay bootleggers who sell dvd-r's to a company which produces dvd's which they own their rights, remaster them, include many language options on their discs and design superb artwork for covers.
This of course is an interesting thread, which will probably help some people make a decision on whether to make a purchase or not.
No joke at all. They have the same right to sell those editions outside of Japan as anyone else to do it on eBay. Again: They only have the rights for Japan, and yet they sell worldwide without paying the copiright owners a penny. They should be (and I am sure they are) ripped off by every other seller of DVD-Rs on eBay. Of course, they own the “beautiful” art work, I’m not advocating they get ripped off in that but in the discs, of course.
Very seriously.
the legal status of all those filmrights is often unclear, but don’t tell me every random person has the right to just take material from lets say SPO and just distribute the stuff somewhere. that’s just not true. it might be somewhat legal if in the country you’re distributing your material (ignoring for a minute where you got it from) the movie in question is public domain (example: death rides a horse in the USA), but if you use material that has been created/produced by another company, you have to license/buy that material, because it’s their property, doesn’t matter what the legal status of the movie is. it might be hard for Wild East for example to convince a judge that diamond ent. ripped their material for their cheap-ass dvd boxes, but they did.
again, I am not a legal expert, but when you bootleg, and don’t pay any licensing fees or royalties, then what you do is make a profit from somebody else’s work/intellectual property, not just for example SPO’s or Wild East’s, but Garrone’s, Leone’s, Corbucci’s etc…
[quote=“Sebastian, post:48, topic:731”]the legal status of all those filmrights is often unclear, but don’t tell me every random person has the right to just take material from lets say SPO and just distribute the stuff somewhere. that’s just not true. it might be somewhat legal if in the country you’re distributing your material (ignoring for a minute where you got it from) the movie in question is public domain (example: death rides a horse in the USA), but if you use material that has been created/produced by another company, you have to license/buy that material, because it’s their property, doesn’t matter what the legal status of the movie is. it might be hard for Wild East for example to convince a judge that diamond ent. ripped their material for their cheap-ass dvd boxes, but they did.
again, I am not a legal expert, but when you bootleg, and don’t pay any licensing fees or royalties, then what you do is make a profit from somebody else’s work/intellectual property, not just for example SPO’s or Wild East’s, but Garrone’s, Leone’s, Corbucci’s etc…[/quote]
We are going to have to agree to disagree there. Number one, if nobody puts out the work of those guys, it is just lost. Period. Lost to that audience, anyway. Number two, if SPO buys the rights for Japan and they end up selling -at outrageous prices- most of their production to other countries for which they have no license, that’s just illegal… as illegal as ripping those DVDs and selling them on eBay.
As long as the copyright owners don’t gent any royalties from the copies sold outside of Japan, it is as wrong and as illegals and as morally reprehensive as to rip them off and selling them on eBay.
[quote=“Manco, post:49, topic:731”]We are going to have to agree to disagree there. Number one, if nobody puts out the work of those guys, it is just lost. Period. Lost to that audience, anyway. Number two, if SPO buys the rights for Japan and they end up selling -at outrageous prices- most of their production to other countries for which they have no license, that’s just illegal… as illegal as ripping those DVDs and selling them on eBay.
As long as the copyright owners don’t gent any royalties from the copies sold outside of Japan, it is as wrong and as illegals and as morally reprehensive as to rip them off and selling them on eBay.[/quote]
Two wrongs don’t make a right. And just because some movies are ‘abandoned’, that does not make them public domain. As far as Death Rides a Horse is concerned, only some badly damaged print of that movie is in the public domain (in America). If I were to take that print and restore it, I would own the copyrights to that particular restored version (in America). If you alter a work that is in the public domain, you own the rights to the altered work. That’s why, for example, scenes were added to Night of the Living Dead. Just to get it out of public domain.
I wasn’t arguing what’s public domain and what isn’t. The facts are very, very clear: There are no copies of many SWs with an English soundtrack, therefore they are craved by fans in the US and the UK. The only -or almost- copies decent (actually quite good) available, other than the bootlegs, are the SPO ones that you can order in the internet for usually 5 times the price of the bootlegs. And they are EQUALLY ILLEGAL. SPO is just NOT LICENSED to sell the discs outside of Japan. And yet they do. Without paying any royalties or asking for permission to the copyright holders. Therefore, public domain or not, copying those discs and selling them on eBay makes it as legitimate -or, more properly, illegitimate- as SPO selling them outside of Japan on the internet.
You can argue whatever you want about two wrongs not making a right. How about three wrongs? Four? It’ll be the neverending story… And then there’s the question of public service, which should supersede -morally- the greed of merchants (people selling discs on eBay for 9 bucks don’t make money, lets face it). Not to mention the exchange of copies between fans, like I am proposing (again).
That’s why it is petty, not to mention absurd, to even question these things. Let everyone do whatever they feel the want to do as long as it all comes down to get those copies to the public that wants them. Those who want to pay 50 bucks a piece and feel more comfortable ordering from Japan, in spite of being accomplices in an illegal transaction, more power to them; same to those who buy from Naushad, Xploited, Wild East, download from the internet or exchange between them. There’s not too much money in this anyway and if the survival of a company or project depends on any of those variables, then that company or individual should consider a broader business plan, sorry.
Long live to the spags… by whatever way they are perpetuated.
Manco, you seem to have somewhat misunderstood how copyright law, and so licensing works. SPO have bought the Japanese rights to the movies they’ve released, which as you have correctly stated means that they can only press a disc for sale through Japanese stores, just as, say, Optimum own the rights to release Pan’s Labyrinth in the UK while New Line own the US rights. International law makes it very clear that these items cannot be sold outside the territories they are licensed for - SPO couldn’t suddenly slap some English language covers on their releases and have them sold in the UK because they don’t have the rights. However, shops like amazon.co.jp, yesasia.com and all the others are based in Japan, so all the sales that are generated by them are within the Japanese market and so conform to the licensing requirements. This is why amazon don’t let you sell DVDs that aren’t in your region as new on their marketplace - second hand is OK because you have personally imported the copy. This is why all the R1 DVDs listed on amazon.co.uk marketplace are listed as ‘used-like new’ when they are sold from the UK and ‘new’ when they are sold from the US.
Contrary to your assertions, spaghetti westerns are actually popular in Japan and it is pure speculation (and an incorrect speculation imho) that the majority sell to people who don’t live in Japan - export sales make up a very small percentage of most DVD sales. The pricing of Japanese DVDs has to do with the strength of the Yen, and also the market that exists within Japan - most people rent DVDs rather than buy them, hence the prices on the copies for sale have to be higher to recoup the investment in buying the rights, mastering, marketing etc etc. SPOs website is only in Japanese too, so they can’t be too concerned about capturing overseas sales.
Personally I have no problem with fans trading copies of films that are not commercially available anywhere, but to say it is both legally and morally acceptable to bootleg SPO’s, or indeed any other company’s legitimate releases (eg the UK MGM DVD of Death Rides a Horse), is simply incorrect. If people take the attitude you take, then there simply won’t be any more releases of Spaghetti Westerns anywhere.
Just wanted to add one more thing…
If people keep pirating spaghetti westerns, and no one buys them, than that ‘broader business plan’ will in all likelihood not include spaghetti westerns at all.
[quote=“ali, post:53, topic:731”]Just wanted to add one more thing…
If people keep pirating spaghetti westerns, and no one buys them, than that ‘broader business plan’ will in all likelihood not include spaghetti westerns at all.[/quote]
We are going to have to agree to disagree on that amigo. All of it. As a matter of fact the whole shebang is preposterous, inadequate and exploitative. From every angle, specially the big studios that make absolutely no money whatsoever releasing SW, none of them, they are used, if anyhthing, as tax breaks, nothing else. That’s why no one anywhere, releases them other than bootlegs, restorers, etc, while they are all playing all the time on TV everywhere so, the movies and the good copies do exist, but they just simply cant release them because not enough people will buy them. That’s not because people rip them off or otherwise pirate tbhem, it’s because they are part of a niche market so small that makes it inviable the release of them as a viable business.
But they are part of a whole different scheme to try and continue doing what they have been doing forever (the big houses I mean): fleecing the public everywhere. Releasing all these titles, ALL OF THEM, costs practiocally nothing. You just have to put them on an electronic support and make it accessible to everyone. Almost nop expenses incurred. Put them online and I guarantee you not only that hundreds of thousands of people will watch them, but they’ll even PAY for the privilege. Of course if you pretend to charge the same than for the last Spiderman, people is going to balk and simply not buy, but if you just put it out there and charge a buck or two for the downloads, I repeat: Hundreds of thousand. Perfect business: No risks involved… why not (the means supports and technology already exists), because quite a few parasites want to keep (an exercise in futility, besides) the status quo where a lot a them suck from the same tit. Fuck them I say because that’s why they have been doing, continue doing and pretend to do forever with the public. Thank God the internet is the big equalizer and the reason why all those parasites are bound to disappear sooner rather than later.
Of course that’s just my opinion. You, on the other hand, are more than welcome to continue spending your money any way you choose.
But no moral lectures or ulterior lecture “purposes”, please.
Is it really this simple?
Releasing all these titles, ALL OF THEM, costs practiocally nothing.
Surely it costs money to restore these films if you want to release a high-quality product?
Put them online and I guarantee you not only that hundreds of thousands of people will watch them, but they'll even PAY for the privilege.
But you also say:
...they just simply cant release them because not enough people will buy them.
So your point is that if the movies were available for downloading people would pay, but they wouldn’t pay to get their hands on a good quality dvd release?
I’d rather have the dvd than a downloaded file that’s for sure!
And the profit-aspect you’re mentioning, everybody wants to make money, just like the spaghetti-characters themselves ;D
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You just don’t want to “get it”. Restoring costs when they do actually restore, generally they just “clean up a bit” the soundtrack and make digital.n No, I’m not talking restoration, but use of bthe original material that producers and distributors have easily accessible most of the times and they dont want to use it because it is not worth it since financially the release of these things, as it stands todat, makes no money at all.
What I am saying, very clearly, is that if they’d put it online and available for download, the expense is minimal, therefore they could sell the downloads for a buck or two and still they’d make very decent money as opposed to zilch, nada, keeping the negatives in the vaults.
But guess what, the parasites are looking to fleece you some more releasing the same old shit again… this time in HD, so you can “appreciate” the poor quality of the original material in all its “glory” and, along the way, leave another 25 bucks that go to different kind of parasites and NADA, ZILCH, to the creators or they states. What do you think they’d prefer?
The difference is from 9.99 all the way to $50.00 (SPO) -and only half a dozen titles- to 1-2 bucks in over 700 titles. The first is the miserable option of the parasites to fleece a minimal amount of collectors and fans; the second is an industry move to put out there everything the audience may want, ready an easily accessible AND MAKE A BUNDLE, much more than using the regular channels… Of course manufacturers of boxes, discs, inks, bulk speculators and retailers won’t make a dime, but the people with the RIGHTS would. And the audience would benefit too, just not the parasites of the obsolete channel. Of course those parasites have a very well defined vested interest in going AGAINST the benefit of the audience. That’s why the electronic channel is not yet the only channel -not even one of them yet-. But it is coming, my a(very) old fashioned friend. Don’t support the parasites that live off fleecing you and your fellow consumers. Stop the bloodsuckers for good.
Clear amigo?
Hmm, but if you’re just going to download a lot of stuff you’ll need really good and expensive computers, wouldn’t do to have some old equipment that’s just enough for visiting websites.
Aren’t the computer companies also bloodsuckers? 
JUST A QUICK QUESTION REGARDING DEATH RIDES A HORSE.
MGM/UA IS A VERY BIG COMPANY,RIGHT?WHY DO THEY ONLY HOLD THE RIGHTS TO THE UK AND NOT WORLDWIDE?I THINK THIS IS A TOTAL BULSHIT STORY.MGM/UA IS AN AMERICAN BASED COMPANY NOT BRITISH.can anyone explain this to me ,please.
[quote=“Silvanito, post:57, topic:731”]Hmm, but if you’re just going to download a lot of stuff you’ll need really good and expensive computers, wouldn’t do to have some old equipment that’s just enough for visiting websites.
Aren’t the computer companies also bloodsuckers? ;)[/quote]
Not really. You don’t need an expensive computer, just a fast internet connection -and that costs very, very little and you use it for everything-. The computer companies are a much more streamlined entities than music or DVD distributors. And the prices of the computers are ridiculously low. Plus your cable company can download it to your cable box through your cable or telephone… there are many, many options, but they just want your money the old fashioned way so many people suck from the same tit; that’s why intead of one or two dollars it costs you 15 through 60…
Oh, but you also get a nice cover art, lets not forget about that…
Manco I honestly don’t think that many people would want to even download an old spaghetti western even if it was free. As you said above in one of your posts this a niche market which is remarkably small and that is why not many releases come out from the big companies (MGM etc.), they loose money on the shit. So why would people suddenly start loving spaghetti westerns when they become downloadable and less pricey? That step I simply cannot fathom.
Also regarding downloaded material vs. physically getting something for your money there is also the hassle of you having to backup your movie collection if you’re not to loose it in the next HD breakdown 