For me it feels stupid, after many watchings including one tonight, not to increase OUATITW’s until now number 2 position to number 1 on my SW list for a tie with For A Few Dollars More. OUATITW is so unique among all SWs that is could be considered to be out of competion or in its own league.
The story - maybe not so special in its elements, but very stylishly Leone directed film dealing with a family tragedy, revenge, the railroad progress and its economical and visionary aspects, power, friendship, the fall down of the gunmen era, among other things and Leone creates an for SWs rather unusual feeling of realism or at least depth, IMO. The long run time is very well filled with logically follwing scenes putting the plot nicely together.
Cinematography - exquisite and it suits the rather low tempo. Maybe a bit exaggerated with so many railway scenes shot on the same rather short La Calahorra - Alquife line. The stylistic flashback scene in the end, which put the harmonica and Harmonica in their right perspectives, is nice even if Fonda looks too old there but with such an expression in his eyes and teeth - typical of SW. The action scenes connect the film with SWs in general, and so does the extreme long slow moving opening scene. My favorite scene could be when Fonda appears for the first time and he and his gang in long coates are lined up to face the threat of a little boy.
The leading actors Bronson, Fonda, Cardinale, Robards and (the railroad baron) Ferzetti are very convincing. Also the rest of the actors are fine with a lot of well known SW faces. Actually I first tonight saw that Aldo Berti was one of the card players.
The different Morricone musical themes connected to each of the 5 leading actors are very nice and powerful, (but maybe some of it for the Cardinale character is too “cheesy” or what you can call it with not so typical SW orchestral music but other parts lean at Bach or so with vocals). The sentimental theme accompanying the railroad baron is especially beautiful IMO.
The mood is as hinted above more realistic, but with a sentimental tone, due to the depth of the story and the 5 leading actors, and no comedy - fine !
The shootouts are relatively few but nicely performed with the final duel as a climax emphasized by different musical themes. No boring random shooting - fine !
The fist fights and barroom brawls are extinct - fine !
So it is a masterpiece IMO, worth a number 1 position on my SW Top list.
For me personally, this film suffers from the same problem that The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly suffers from and, in a sentiment echoed by Clint Eastwood, that was Leone’s determination to make an “epic” (in length anyway) whether the script or the story demanded it or not. Don’t get me wrong, both films are classic but both could have been even better with unnecessary scenes cut down or even deleted completely. As a matter of fact, the four movies he made after For a Few Dollars More all suffered from this same issue.
Though Eastwood used a different director, who escapes me now, as an example when he stated this in an interview (I believe it was on Kino Lorber’s 50th anniversary edition though I could be wrong), I will use Akira Kurosawa as an example since A Fistful of Dollars shows Leone’s “admiration” for the director’s work. Leone looked at a film like Seven Samurai and wanted to accomplish what Kurosawa was able to do with that marathon of a movie, seeming to believe that is part of what it took to make a movie respected. He somehow missed out on the fact that some of Kurosawa’s greatest, including Yojimbo, have running times under two hours. Kurosawa didn’t fill his movies with unnecessary scenes in an attempt to make an epic, he let the story dictate the length - even if that meant that the movie was only 88 minutes long (Rashomon).
For me, this is what makes For a Few Dollars More Leone’s best effort because that is exactly what he did in this film. As I said, both The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly and Once Upon a Time in the West are classics but where I find fault with both films is that they could have been even better had Leone not let his ego get in the way.
This is just my personal opinion which I expect won’t be popular with many but it is cathartic toward venting the gnawing anger I feel whenever I watch one of the aforementioned movies and think about just how good they could have been.
But I agree with you in principle, about the problem with the length/unnecessary scenes, even if regarding these two SWs I feel the general slow pace of OUTITW and its length appear more natural connected to the depth in story and characters so that the Leone’s desire for making a simultaneously epic movie and a spaghetti western is uniquely successfully fullfilled.
I am probably also in the minority that prefers For A Few Dollars More compared with The Good, The Bad and The Ugly mainly for similar reasons connected to their respective lengths. Both are much more like other SWs, just, together with Fistfull Of Dollars, much better than the rest in their traditional style, so I don’t feel the latter story/execution justifes the SW’s length, and mainly for practical reasons (and too much Tuco) .
I hesitate to watch a film (over and over again as with my SW collection) that is over maybe 1.40 h or so even if I have time to do so.
Regarding Once Upon A Time In The West my instictively resistance to its length, per se, is balanced by my perceived logic of all scenes and their beautifulness cinematographically and is therefore much better accepted resulting in more frequent watchings.
But still, I have probably watched a few other favorite SWs of mine even more times each thanks to their shorter lengths of around 1.30 +/- 0.10 h, and in spite of all of them being much more recent acquaintances during just a little more than 3 years at the most. However the 4 first Leone SWs constituted the main reason for me to get more seriously interested in other lesser known SWs and they still account for my SW Top list 1-4 positions.
Most things that can be said about this film has already been said; It’s a masterpiece from start to finish, and, arguably, my all-time favorite film. The question is, however, if it’s really as famous as it should be (at least here in Sweden).
As some of my friends (who are one year older than I am) were graduating last spring, I decided to invite them to watch a movie at my house as some sort of “farewell” (turns out it wasn’t, since all of them are still in town) and I proposed this film when I talked to one of them who, to my delight, had heard of it.
Turns out the list of friends and relatives who had ended there.
I announced it as our pick to my father, who barely recognized it as he recalled a few shots of Henry Fonda and having seen press photos with Claudia Cardinale. A few days later, I talked to my literature teacher and brought up the opening scene, assuming that of course he’d seen it given his seemingly near-universal knowledge about almost any topic. He’d never heard of it. I told him “But even my friend had heard of it and he’s far from all-knowing” to which he replied; “Well, perhaps some people in a small circle might’ve heard of it”.
I walked from that lesson absolutely horrified. How come one such knowledgeable man never even heard of a film of such historical importance? A few nights ago, I brought up the topic again with my mother and one of her friends from England, who hadn’t heard of it either.
So either I’ve simply been a victim of extreme bad luck or is the common knowledge nowadays so poor that most people simply don’t know about this film?
Maybe your (Swedish ?) literature teacher had forgotten all about it after having just noticed a Swedish review in “Svenska Dagbladet”, maybe published as early as 1968 or so first time, where this masterpiece was rejected as just speculation in violence, if I remember correctly. At least that type of reaction was probably typical for some of the Leone’s westerns.
Maybe they only got the wrong impression that spaghetti westerns were more violent versions of American westerns ?
My broad generalisation on how spags are viewed here in the UK, based on nothing but my own experience: Most people have heard of the Dollars trilogy and of Once Upon a Time in the West, and no more. Well, a few might now be aware that there’s a movie called Django out there somewhere because of Django Unchained, but that’s it.
I reckon about half of those would be aware of the concept of what a “spaghetti” western is, and that those aforementioned movies are indeed spaghettis.
I would reckon that only a small number of those would say that they’ve seen one, and I reckon that the one they’d claim to have seen would be either The Good, the Bad and the Ugly or Once Upon a Time in the West, although I also reckon that a good portion of those who’d claim never to have seen one would probably realise that they have indeed seen either TG,tB&tU, OUaTitW or maybe even For a Few Dollars More too if they were sat in front of them.
I could be well off on all of that, but it’s just the sense I get from conversations I’ve had down the years with people about westerns and about film generally, and from the way spags seem to be perceived within the modern British zeitgeist.
Unfortunately, it seems, the percentage of adults today who know about or watch “old movies” is rather low, and lower even for Westerns, and even lower for spaghetti westerns. Much to my chagrin of course, we keep overestimating the appeal of these movies today, so there is lots to do. We are the ambassadors of the Spaghetti west
Sorry, guys … but you can’t push your interests onto someone else - you’ll come across as a evangelical bore … “Have you heard the good news!?” ‘Run Man, Run!’
So what if huge chunks of the population don’t know of these films,or a very broad spectrum of cinema history in general … just accept that it’s not their thing and that yapping on about it won’t win any converts.
Anyone with a genuine thirst for cinematic knowledge and experience can and will find these things out for themselves, via recommendations from directors they’re already familiar with, etc.
Just because your school friends or aunties neighbor know nada about Leone or this genre is no big surprise … they probably know very little about any of the 20th century cinema greats ?
The discussion is bit off-topic. Maybe this should become a seperate thread
In my “youth”,I think from 16 onwards as my parents bought a VCR around that period, I liked watching the BBC for their John Ford movies and not to forget the Moviedeome experiences. Also I could watch German movies, mostly John Wayne but also remember taping all Franco Nero movies, just because to see what he had made.
When commercial networks came, RTL Germany had weekly an Italian western which my sister would tape on VCR as we could not watch it (it was no part of our network package).
On our Dutch network we did not have these.
Nowadays I notice that my kids watch Netflix a lot. Easy, pause when necessary. With the addition of some Italian movies I hope that there will be more interest in these kind of movies.
You must have some kind of interest and willing to expand that interst.
I have several spag t-shirts that generally draw nothing but curious looks when I wear them…unless Clint is on the front. Whenever I wear a Clint shirt here in the U.S. someone will generally walk up to me and tell me how much they love the shirt. They will then tell me what huge fans of spaghetti westerns they are so I will question them further as to what some of their favorites are and nine times out of ten I find that these “huge fans” believe the entirety of the spaghetti western genre consists of the Dollars Trilogy and maybe, on rare occasions, Once Upon a Time in the West. When I tell them that there were well over 600 spags made most immediately seem to lose interest in discussing it and quickly go about their business. Those that seem to actually be curious about the genre, I am always more than happy to talk to about the subject (which I enjoy because I am afraid that I have educated my wife to a level far greater than she ever had a desire to learn ).
I think that most people nowadays, with their short attention spans, are always in a quest for the newest and the most technologically advanced. They are so busy searching for what they perceive to be the greatness of the future they don’t take the time to research and appreciate the greatness of the past.
You’re probably right. I didn’t intend to start a discussion about how well known Spaghetti Westerns are to mainstream audiences, I just wanted to discuss how come next to no one in my vicinity has heard of OUATITW despite being one of the best (or, if you ask me, THE best) and most influential films ever made. I wouldn’t have been any big deal if the film in question was, let’s say, The Mercenary or Death Rides a Horse, but OUTITW? I thought it was like Scherpschutter wrote in the Essential SW list; If you haven’t heard of this film, you’ve been living on another planet for 40 years.
I think it’s the same for all ‘hardcore’ fans here … I know of no one in my area that is remotely into cinema, other than the mainstream stuff that is saturated in every cinema or streaming service.
Couple of years ago I had a shock when talking to a pair of PHD English Literature grads, both about 23/4 years old … they had just been to see ‘The Last Jedi’ (or one of the Star Wars movies) which they both thoroughly enjoyed … which surprised me, as I thought it might be too lowbrow for these budding intellectuals … as the conversation progressed it seems that both these Bachelor of Arts people knew zero about cinema - I had mentioned something about ‘On the Waterfront’ which I’d recently re-watched, they asked who was in it, and when I told them, Marlon Brando, they had never heard of him !!! WTF
It just shows you that what ‘we’, as film fans hold dear, has almost no relevance with today’s generation, even supposedly the advanced education crowd - sad but true story.
That sounds like a probable explanation… Many people simply doesn’t bother to explore certain topics. They’re too busy wondering what to eat for dinner.
My point was that i’d expect an intellectual person with such vast knowledge of literature, philosophy, art, etc like my literature teacher to at least have heard of such an influential film. But as you said, a degree in one field doesn’t mean you know anything about other topics, even if you should because they´re so closely connected to each other. I recall a visit from a musical university whose Jazz profile played a few songs by fairly obscure artists. As i approached one student afterwards, i told him he’s guitar looked just like Lucille (BB King’s guitar). He didn’t seem to know what i was talking about.
And don’t forget i’m young and naive. Perhaps my expectations on people are simply too big?
I don’t think that’s the problem - it is truly shocking to find people who are respected in their specialized areas to have missed completely key areas of artistic importance - and you are absolutely correct to say that these things are linked, - they should have at the very least a ‘bluffers guide’ worth of info on the various aspects of the arts.
It makes me wonder if this type of person is actually genuinely committed, or have they just learned what is seen as needed … they digest and repeat without really exploring anything other than what’s on the curriculum.
I don’t think that’s what advocacy is all about. I do not wish to push the love for this genre unto others, but as with many niche interestes or historic art forms and knowledge, it requres effort to keep it in the public eye, to lobby for attention and preservation. And this is something we can contribute to. Keep telling people, gifting BluRays, and so forth. We could let the sets in Spain all rot and succumb into oblivious, or we can lobby for these to be preserved. We are like a networked museum
I appreciate and understand the distinction - My comments were referring to general socializing situations … but I do believe people have to want to discover this genre and make some connection or not as the case may be.
absolutely, but as so often, you gotta know about it in order to decide whether to like it or not At any rate, as has been said, it’s a bit off topic, but a hugely important issue for the SWDb, and thus I also emphasized this aspect in the podcast a few times
Exactly! It’s true that you can’t force your interests to other people, but you can introduce them, and that’s a very different thing. Passing down things of any category to new generations is extremely important, but unfortunately, it seems like few people actually do that.
I didn’t show this film to my friends because I want to force them to like westerns. I showed it because i’ts an insanely great movie and because I want other people to be aware of it so that it won’t be forgotten.
I don’t remember exactly how I became a true aficionado, but I had Leone’s first 4 SWs on DVD or Bluray, which I also hade seen before on TV. I and my wife, on her initiative, went to Tabernas in 2017 to check out the area visiting Fort Bravo (I was reluctant though) and running some hills there and near the artificial lake in Cabo del Gata.
Only afterwards I got interested in finding some Tabernas locations on Google maps from the Leone’s SWs.
But for some reason it was not until 2018 that I started exploring and buying more SWs choosing from Tarantino’s top list and that must have been when I discovered this eminent web site. So I wasn’t pushed into the genre, except for the trip to Almeria which might have been the trigger for me. If i hadn’t watched the Leone SWs in the 1970’s - 1980´s or so I would probably never had heard so much about the genre.
At any rate, as has been said, it’s a bit off topic, but a hugely important issue for the SWDb, and thus I also emphasized this aspect in the podcast a few times