Most controversial thread ever (enter at your own risk)


(scherpschutter) #161

I meant to say that the revival of the extreme right in countries like Holland, Belgium, Danmark, Austria, France and Great-Britain is mainly due mass immigration and the problems it causes, especially in the bigger cities like Brussels, Rotterdam, London, Paris etc. Just listen to what those politicians talk abbout: mass immigration (especially of people from islamic countries) is their core business. My fellow Dutchman Geert Wilders is quickly becoming an international star thanks to his anti-islam propaganda. I’m not familiar with the situation in Sweden (I don’t read Swedish) but I’m quite sure there is some kind of revival of far-right politics, and I’m quite sure their leader is talking (and talking, and talking) about mass immigration.


(Starblack) #162

Scherp posted just as I was typing. I think he was also pointing out how public attitudes seem to have hardened against immigration in recent years, an attitude provoked in part by the media and right-wing politicians for whom “mass immigration” is a maxim. With the economic crisis threatening living standards, many people automatically become hostile to economic migrants (“bloody foreigners taking our jobs”) and are all too willing to believe every press story and political diatribe against migrants cheating the benefit system, etc.

In any case, there is a problem with large-scale immigration, certainly in the UK. The question is how to handle it fairly. That doesn’t mean anybody here is advocating far-right or fascistic policies.


(Bluntwolf) #163

What is the greatest lie ever created? What is the most vicious obscenity ever perpetrated on mankind?

Slavery?

The Holocaust?

Dictatorship?

NO!!!

It’s the tool with which all that wickedness is built. It is this great inversion, this ancient lie, which has chained humanity to an endless cycle of guilt and failure = Altruism

Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their altruism. “Never mind your own needs,” they say, “think of the needs of …” of … whoever. Of the state. Of the poor. Of the army. Of the king. Of God. The list goes on and on…

Andrew Ryan


(natos99) #164

ok this is my first post for this thread & I dont want to cause a “ruckus” or “bad feelings”

but its interesting no one has talked about the Catholic Churchs part in the 2nd world war they would of been happy to follow Hitler just like the good old days of killing sabbath keepers in the Spanish Inquisition.

history has tried to cover this up

(im not trying to spawn hatred to catholic church just a interesting point of view)


(scherpschutter) #165

[quote=“natos99, post:164, topic:2465”]ok this is my first post for this thread & I dont want to cause a “ruckus” or “bad feelings”

but its interesting no one has talked about the Catholic Churchs part in the 2nd world war they would of been happy to follow Hitler just like the good old days of killing sabbath keepers in the Spanish Inquisition.

history has tried to cover this up

(im not trying to spawn hatred to catholic church just a interesting point of view)[/quote]

Nothing wrong with your post.
A Belgian philosopher, Dirk Verhofstadt (a brother of the better-known politician) wrote an interesting book about the subject; His conclusions are devastating for the catholic Church. I read it a few months ago. I don’t know if it has been translated into English.

EDIT:

Can’t find anything about a translation, but here’s an interesting article in English on the book:


(El Topo) #166

Yes an interesting issue this one, as we all know the Catholic Church hierarchy not the exemple of modernisn and vanguardism, and have a lot to be blame for, during the that period, but in Real Politik terms they were in one of those betwenn a rock and a hard place positions, for several reasons.
Also important it’s the fact that few possible resistent to the nazis in Germany during the war period, was indeed made by the catholic church (nuns, priests not the Pope in the Vatican) the other was the communist party of course, for instance the not so small uprise in the Nuremberg region, High Frankonia to be more exact, after the Stalingrad disaster (were most of the soldiers in the 6th Army was from) was mostly organized by the local catholic church, it surely was the bigest uprise (spontaneous uprise I mean) against the nazi regime during WWII in Germany.

Like I said a very interesting subject, with for instance the behavieur of the Church in the Vichy years etc.


(korano) #167

And as far as right wing politicians in the US are concerned, it’s Mexicans and Liberals. ::slight_smile:


(natos99) #168

True but the media helps fuel these people aswell like certain Countrys trying to ban the head scarf or recently that priest I think saying we should burn the koran I mean putting this stuff out in the public is just gona spawn more hatred
(Americas got a bad enough name as it is haha)


(Starblack) #169

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:165, topic:2465”]Nothing wrong with your post.
A Belgian philosopher, Dirk Verhofstadt (a brother of the better-known politician) wrote an interesting book about the subject; His conclusions are devastating for the catholic Church. I read it a few months ago. I don’t know if it has been translated into English.

EDIT:

Can’t find anything about a translation, but here’s an interesting article in English on the book:

British historian John Cornwell wrote a biography of Pius in the 90s. The title is succinct: Hitler’s Pope:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitlers-Pope-Secret-History-Pius/dp/014026681X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284543438&sr=1-1

The incumbent Pope is gracing the UK with a “state visit” (his state being a glorified church in the middle of Rome) this weekend.


(El Topo) #170

Silence if we are no better, the western democracies I mean, even just a little bit better, than extremists, so we better go back to the middle ages forget about all the evolution we had in the last centuries, forget the French revolution the welfare state, the holidays, the 8 hours a day work, public education, laicism states, freedom of speech and everything.
If there’s historic reasons for extremists mainly islamic extremism… well all too complicated issues for sure, but I can assure, that living in such type of state would be very dificult to me, and I’ve seen first hand what extremist are capable of (islamic or not).

We should not spit in our own soup Silence, anyway writing in something gratuitously called Hitler always complicated to me


(korano) #171

[quote=“Silence”]I don’t know about any islamic terrorist group in Sweden, UK, France, whatever.[/quote]There was the tunnel bombing not long ago in the UK. And France has a problem with the Muslim population


(django live) #172

amen to that brother!!!


(natos99) #173

I dont think the “Extremists” is so Black & White, these people are practically brain washed from a higher power and the others that follow have experiences similar to any “Anti-Hero” from a Spaghetti Western if some American Soldiers came and blew up half of your town/school/home/family you might understand them wanting some sort of “Revenge”

Like I said before, the media giving light to stupid preachers like that one in the States who wants to burn the Koran doesn’t help much eather, I dont think freedom of Speech is exactly as it once was anymore, everything has to be “Politically Correct” these days (even from a one sided point of view)


(John Welles) #174

I don’t how much international news you get in Sweden, but back in 2005 there were coordinated bombings in London in buses and on trains in the tube. So I have to disagree with you when you say “I don’t know about any Islamic terrorist group in… UK”. Just because you don’t know of them, doesn’t mean to say they don’t exist.

I think you take your liberties too much for granted. Would you rather live in Saudi Arabia or Sweden? Yes, the West made mistakes in the past, but as that’s the past there is nothing we can do about it (unless you have invented a time machine) so we should live in the present. Of course, there are mistakes being made now, but I’d rather live in a society where every four-to-five years you can change the government and have a better leader than in a dictatorship where you can not. There are a lots of things wrong with Britain, but there are a helluva a lot more things wrong, in say, Iraq or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. The majority of Muslims are good people, but there are a few bad ones who make everyone suffer, just like there have been a lot of good white people and a lot of bad white people. Remember: Europe, even if it were just a little better than the worst country on Earth, surely it would be better living in Europe than there, because at least you can help change the direction of your country.


(El Topo) #175

Hey kid about that descolonization process, over the all world, cause all the world, with the exception of China (and Japan), and even so, remember the Boxer War period (and Hong Kong, Macau), was colonized by an European country, from Danmark to Belgium, yeas a big fuck up, frontiers made in Paris, slavery, taking all the ressources etc but an inevitable one, cause the world is round and there’s a thing called boats, and we humans do like to travel, even if in turistic class. I’ve been in Angola a few days ago, and if they don’t turn that country in one the richest in the world, they are the ones to blame. Ok maybe Bin laden is pissed off cause the Arabs were kicked out of the Iberia Peninsula in the …century or so, or maybe not just that, the dream of an Muslim big nation it’s not from today, of course that are many different Muslins and that’s a problem, and each Muslin nation as a king or a president, that do not wan’t to loose power, there’s also oil on the equation , Israel (maybe the last descolonization issue) that liked or not works like a head beach on the region (like cyprus in the old days of the Otoman empire )etc etc, but those bombs they just don’t blow by chance kid, London, Madrid why not Oslo, or Lisbon.
Anyway all this just to say that if that was the problem well maybe we should not had come out of African, talk about globalization.
In the world today, there’s no middle term, we got to draw a line and choose a side regardless of our relegion or politic colour (if we have one) , a democatric piece of shit world, or a darkness world, that we (western and democratic world) start to overcame centuries ago , the problem and that’s way the world of today it’s so dangerous is that there’s too many sides, and we are not still used to it, and are not able to deal with it, does this means a future war bigger that the ones we have today, most probably, I’m afraid war has been the commom thing in the past to solve our problems (not peace) and i don’t see that changing in the near future.


(Stanton) #176

It seems this thread got a new name …


(ENNIOO) #177

Noticed Sebastian has amended the first post of this thread today.


(Starblack) #178

But there is no reason behind religiously motivated terrorism. Faith negates reason.

Why can’t you reason with a religious extremist? Because they believe what they say (and, needless to say, what they have read and been told to believe by their religious mentors and their forebears).

So while it may be ‘understandable’ why an Islamic sect may choose to detonate bombs in the UK, for example, as a reprisal against its presence in Iraq and Afghanistan (the Crusades are ongoing, remember), if you believe you have a mandate from God to do so, you really don’t need to justify yourself.

Reasonable? Quite the opposite.


(Yodlaf Peterson) #179

I’ve just downloaded the Koran.

…do you want me to burn you a copy?


(scherpschutter) #180

[quote=“Yodlaf Peterson, post:179, topic:2465”]I’ve just downloaded the Koran.

…do you want me to burn you a copy?[/quote]

Yes, but at least four blocks away from Gound Zero