Most controversial thread ever (enter at your own risk)

(korano) #61

I don’t think that a spaghetti Western really wants to be as deep with the subject as that. They just want to get the message across. Silence, you really should see Reds and some of Bertolucci’s movies if you’re that interested in Communism and Marxism.

(korano) #62

[quote=“Silence”]I’m trying to read The Capital by Karl Marx. But it’s sort of difficult, haha ;).[/quote]Jesus! Some heady stuff you’re reading, boy!

Anyway, I’ve said that Bertolucci was a Marixst. I’d recommend specifically The Conformist and 1900. Probably his 2 most political movies.

(Phil H) #63

[quote=“Silence”]Thanks for the tip!

I’m trying to read The Capital by Karl Marx. But it’s sort of difficult, haha ;).[/quote]

Well you might want to plough on with it before considering yourself a Marxist. Always good to understand a label fully before sticking it on yourself. :wink:

(korano) #64


And of course Phil is right.

(Major Clyde) #65

Granted, there are all sorts of “Marxists.” But what is to be done with those pesky “haves” who refuse to cooperate in the building of the Radiant Future?

Das Kapital is an analysis of capitalism in the 19th century. Things have changed so much since then that it really has little relevance as a tool today. If you’re interested in a more “humanist” or “humane” work by Marx you might check out his very interesting Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844.

PhilH is right-- Know just what you’re calling yourself. :slight_smile:

(scherpschutter) #66

Exactly, that’s the problem with all these doctrines, whether left or right

It’s a bit like that African dictator Mobutu, when he was asked why he didn’t allow opposition in his country. His answer was:

“We don’t need opposition in this country, I represent all inhabitants”

(Yodlaf Peterson) #67

(Hoover Valentine) #68

(Major Clyde) #69

I do know Che Guevara’s answer to my question.

(scherpschutter) #70

That was not Major Clyde’s question, ****. The question was, and is: What is to be done with these people who refuse to cooperate in the building of a communist society?

What’s the party going to do with people like Major Clyde and me, who don’t want to cooperate?
I can only speak for myself: I’m not a fascist, but I don’t want to live in a communist society. What am I supposed to do? Leave the country? Leave the country and leave my money and possessions behind? Why? What happens to me if I refuse to go and also refuse to donate my money and possessions to the revolution? And where shall I go when the whole world is a communist paradise?

(scherpschutter) #71

That’s still not an answer to the question, ****.

The world is by no means a Capitalist paradise, it’s a jungle.
I don’t want to take away your dreams, but like Karl Popper has said, all attempts to create paradise on earth, have turned into a living hell.

(Stanton) #72

How’s about a democratic communism? Or Marxism?

(scherpschutter) #73

That’s the only workable manifestation of similar doctrines

However, there will be always the question whether the representatives are real democrats, and do not want to use the democratic constitution of the state as a springboard to dictatorship. It happened before and most probably will happen again. A democratic manifestation of what is by nature totalitary, is by definition suspect. We should always be on our guard.

(Major Clyde) #74

It could be because he does not wish to risk being thrown out on his ass in a democratic election. According to Comrade Brezhnev, we can’t allow a socialist country to “go back.”

Perhaps some day you’ll get the shock of your life if the Castros experience a Ceausescu-type end…

It’s a good thing that the “capitalist paradise” Sweden does not execute or imprison those who dislike the system… :slight_smile:

(korano) #75

Castro, I don’t think has much power any more. Isn’t his brother acting leader now or something?

And it should ne quite obvious why Castro doesn’t want to concede power.

(Major Clyde) #76

There’s no blockade . You can visit. You can buy their products. The US simply excludes them.

And I’ll repeat: It’s a good thing that the “capitalist paradise” Sweden does not execute or imprison those who dislike the system…

(korano) #77

Any country would be better without a dictator. But that’s part of Communism. The people’s rights are severly limited by the government and free speech is equally limited. Also, the system of government in Cuba has left it basically a third world country with numerous problems and little money. Like Scher said, don’t want to ruin your ideas but Communism really aint that great a system of Government. Not many, if any countries have prospered under Communist rule.

(Major Clyde) #78

Cuba is not limited to buying and selling with the US-- there’s a whole world out there filled with countries with which Cuba could trade. Cuba is not poor because of the US.

“And I do support all troops in the Cuban revolution who fought for freedom. Sadly it didn’t turn out the way they thought.”

I cannot disagree with you at all. Cubans are excellent people with a vibrant and important culture and have always deserved better. :slight_smile:

(korano) #79

The US has an embargo on Cuba. Not blockade. And that’s because the US does not support their Government. Pre Revolution Cuba was mostly exploited by organized crime from the US, which would have probably generated more income for Cuba than what they have now.

"It didn’t turn out how the way they thought."
That’s pretty much how all Communist Revolutions have turned out.

(Major Clyde) #80

I would have no objection to trade with Cuba and don’t think the embargo makes much sense these days. The only reason it is intact is the electoral power of the emigre Cuban community in the US. I guess they would be considered “capitalist counter-revolutionaries.” Better to live in Miami than in a Castro prison…