Favorite Non–Spaghetti Westerns

[Paco_Roman]

I admire the Western of Anthony Mann with James Stewart: Winchester 73, The Man of Laramie, Bend of the River, The Far Country and Naked Spur. I like it that James Stewart isn’t just the cool Cowboy who is unbeatable. All 5 Movies have good stories and nice Action Scenes. Man of the West with Gary Cooper is also that kind of western.

Some of my favorites of the 30’s and 40’s: She wore a yellow Ribbon, Stagecoach, My Darling Clementine, The Gunfighter and Jesse James.

Other favorites of mine from the 50’s are : The Big Country , 7 Men from Now, Hondo, The Law and Jake Wade and Vera Cruz .
IMO the 50’s are the peak of the US Western Genre. So it’s a bit difficult to pick only 5.

from the 60’s: Hombre, The Wild Bunch, Ride the High Country, The Man who shot Liberty Valance and El Dorado.

from the 70’s: Lawman, Breakheart Pass, The Shootist, High Plains Drifter and Little Big Man.

80’s, 90’s, new century : Unforgiven, Tom Horn, Tombstone, Geronimo and Open Range.

[stanton]

@Phil H

Yes, fair call. To be honest after '62 I was struggling big time to come up with any alternatives although I genuinely like Jeremiah Johnson a lot and also think Will Penny is a fine western. Of course, I was only offering westerns from the same years you selected. I’ll offer some other favourites from the years you missed out soon. This exercise is interesting as it really highlights how the U.S western had lost its way by the mid sixties. My collection is full of great films up to that period and then is totally dominated by spaghettis from then on until the seventies when they too die away and we have the sporadic U.S ones taking over again.

Can’t agree.

For me the US western had also its best time in the late 60s and early 70s. Lots of wonderful westerns, lots of different westerns.

[scherpschutter]

[quote=“stanton, post:82, topic:103”]Can’t agree.

For me the US western had also its best time in the late 60s and early 70s. Lots of wonderful westerns, lots of different westerns.[/quote]

I think PHIL means to say the period '62-'68 was rather poor
There were a few good films (Major Dundee, Hombre, some more), but nothing compared to the Italian production, and things only really picked up with The Wild Bunch and Little Big Man

The early 70’s were of course a great period for American western movies: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid, Monte Walsh, McCabe & Mrs Miller, Wild Rovers, Bad Company, Cable Hogue, Dirty Little Billy, The Culpepper Cattle Co, Pat & Billy, High Plains Drifter, Jeremiah Johnson, Junior Bonner, Ulzana’s Raid …

[Paco_Roman]

I always had the feeling they tried to renew the western up to the mid 60’s. There were a lot of different western and some combinations with other Genres.

[stanton]

There was a break in the early 60s. The ideas of Ride the High Rountry were shared at the same time by Lonely Are the Brave and in a diferent way by The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Thereafter for a few years nothing new was developed and even the production rate of westerns had gone down considerably. Many, many important directors had finished their career or had stopped contributing to the genre.

But I think the point of Hollywood’s return to form has to be set earlier. Around 66/67 for me.

Cat Ballou
El Dorado
Hombre
Welcome to Hard Times
The Shooting
Ride in the Whirlwind
The Professionals
Nevada Smith
Chuka
Hour of the Gun
The Scalphunters
Will Penny
The Stalking Moon
The War Wagon
Hang em High
Day of the Evil Gun

Nothing to complain

[Silvanito]

@scherpschutter

The early 70’s were of course a great period for American western movies: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid, Monte Walsh, McCabe & Mrs Miller, Wild Rovers, Bad Company, Cable Hogue, Dirty Little Billy, The Culpepper Cattle Co, Pat & Billy, High Plains Drifter, Jeremiah Johnson, Junior Bonner, Ulzana’s Raid …

Weren’t these 70s US westerns the most realistic ones ever?

They have neither the old fashioned mythology of the classical westerns, nor the over-the-top stylistic elements of the spaghetti westerns.

Instead they often have this “kitchen sink reality” feel, if you can use this term for westerns

[ENNIOO]

The 1970’s is my favourite decade for U.S westerns as I find so many; gritty, violent and bitter which is to my taste.

A stark contrast to many of the westerns from the Spaghetti western of the 1970’s, which of course were going down the comedy road.

[Phil_H]

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:83, topic:103”]I think PHIL means to say the period '62-'68 was rather poor
There were a few good films (Major Dundee, Hombre, some more), but nothing compared to the Italian production, and things only really picked up with The Wild Bunch and Little Big Man

The early 70’s were of course a great period for American western movies: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid, Monte Walsh, McCabe & Mrs Miller, Wild Rovers, Bad Company, Cable Hogue, Dirty Little Billy, The Culpepper Cattle Co, Pat & Billy, High Plains Drifter, Jeremiah Johnson, Junior Bonner, Ulzana’s Raid …[/quote]

That is exactly what I meant. If you count up the ‘classic’ spaghettis made between 64 and 68 and then look at what was being produced in the states at the same time it simply doesn’t bare comparrison. There were definitely some good westerns made during that time in the U.S but nothing like the volume that had gone before.

[quote=“stanton, post:85, topic:103”]There was a break in the early 60s. The ideas of Ride the High Rountry were shared at the same time by Lonely Are the Brave and in a diferent way by The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Thereafter for a few years nothing new was developed and even the production rate of westerns had gone down considerably. Many, many important directors had finished their career or had stopped contributing to the genre.

But I think the point of Hollywood’s return to form has to be set earlier. Around 66/67 for me.

Cat Ballou
El Dorado
Hombre
Welcome to Hard Times
The Shooting
Ride in the Whirlwind
The Professionals
Nevada Smith
Chuka
Hour of the Gun
The Scalphunters
Will Penny
The Stalking Moon
The War Wagon
Hang em High
Day of the Evil Gun

Nothing to complain[/quote]

Well, these are ok (although Cat Balou is stretching it somewhat for me) but if these are the best of the period I am only more convinced that the overall quality had dropped. Compare a similar selection from a decade earlier (1956-57)

7 Men From Now
The Searchers
The Last Wagon
The Proud Ones
Three Violent People
3.10 to Yuma
The Tall T
Forty Guns
Gunfight at the OK Corral
The Tall Stranger
The Tin Star
Decision at Sundown

A much healthier bunch by far in my opinion.

[stanton]

I can name several more goodies for 56/57. No problem.

Run of the Arrow
Cowboy
etc.
Much more westerns were generally produced in these days.

But, as much as I like many of them, for me Hombre, The Shooting and maybe also The Professionals are better than any of these.
Except for GbU they are also better than any other SW of these 2 years.
And El Dorado, a 50s style movie, is also on par with every 56/57 western.

A blasphemic statement:
I also would say that the US westerns from 65 to 73 had produced a higher amount of quality westerns than their european counterparts.
Hmm, but I have to admit, I was more sure about this statement 1 or 2 years ago. But I think it still stays.

[Yodlaf_Peterson]

Walter Hill’s THE LONG RIDERS is one of my favourite non-spaghettis.

[Paco_Roman]

[quote=“stanton, post:89, topic:103”]A blasphemic statement:
I also would say that the US westerns from 65 to 73 had produced a higher amount of quality westerns than their european counterparts.
Hmm, but I have to admit, I was more sure about this statement 1 or 2 years ago. But I think it still stays.[/quote]
Very blasphemic I would say No from 1965 -1968. Maybe they had bigger budgets but which movie round that period should be better than the masterpieces of Leone, Sollima, Corbucci etc … In 1969-1973 Yes the US Western had a bit of a comeback. Little Big Man, True Grit, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, The Cowboys, Wild Bunch, High Plainsdrifter, Butch Cassidy & Sundance Kid, Soldier Blue, Little Big Man, Lawman, Ulzana’s Raid, Cable Hogue to name a few which were round that time.

[Phil_H]

@stanton

And El Dorado, a 50s style movie, is also on par with every 56/57 western.

I can’t go along with that I’m afraid. El Dorado is an entertaining western but doesn’t match up to the work being done by Daves, Mann, Boetticher or Ford in 56-57 in my opinion.

[quote=“stanton, post:89, topic:103”]A blasphemic statement:
I also would say that the US westerns from 65 to 73 had produced a higher amount of quality westerns than their european counterparts.
Hmm, but I have to admit, I was more sure about this statement 1 or 2 years ago. But I think it still stays.[/quote]

Thank heavens SD isn’t still around to hear you say that!! :o >:( : :o
The nuclear fall out would kill us all!

[stanton]

@Phil H

I can’t go along with that I’m afraid. El Dorado is an entertaining western but doesn’t match up to the work being done by Daves, Mann, Boetticher or Ford in 56-57 in my opinion.

Do you think El dorado is weaker than Rio Bravo?
For me both are very similar in their qualities, but also in their weaker moments (some flat humour we had talked about a few days ago). Rio Lobo is a minor, but still enjoayble western.

Thank heavens SD isn't still around to hear you say that!! :o >:( :'( ::) :o The nuclear fall out would kill us all! :D

ha ha, I have just imagineed his response … eternal laughter

[Phil_H]

[quote=“stanton, post:93, topic:103”]Do you think El dorado is weaker than Rio Bravo?
For me both are very similar in their qualities, but also in their weaker moments (some flat humour we had talked about a few days ago). Rio Lobo is a minor, but still enjoayble western.[/quote]

Well, El Dorado is effectively a remake of Rio Bravo and I never really understood why Hawks bothered to make the same film twice. (Similar things have been said about Corbucci with Companeros and The Mercenary) El Dorado suffers for the lack of Walter Brennan but gains by the lack of the misplaced songs which were an unnecessary inclusion in Rio Bravo where two of its actors were better known as recording stars. On the whole, I like both but neither would make my pantheon of truly great westerns despite Rio Bravo’s reputation.

[ENNIOO]

[quote=“Phil H, post:92, topic:103”]Thank heavens SD isn’t still around to hear you say that!! :o >:( :’( : :o
The nuclear fall out would kill us all! :D[/quote]

This is very true!

[stanton]

@Phil H

Well, El Dorado is effectively a remake of Rio Bravo and I never really understood why Hawks bothered to make the same film twice. (Similar things have been said about Corbucci with Companeros and The Mercenary) El Dorado suffers for the lack of Walter Brennan but gains by the lack of the misplaced songs which were an unnecessary inclusion in Rio Bravo where two of its actors were better known as recording stars. On the whole, I like both but neither would make my pantheon of truly great westerns despite Rio Bravo’s reputation.

Only the 2nd half is close to Rio Bravo, it’s a compressed variation of similar motives. But there are enough changes to justify the repetition. Just like an improvisation over an existing melody.

Cast is similar great, and Arthur Hunnicut is a good enough substitute for Brennan. Wayne is at his best in both (but looks tired in Rio Lobo). Dino (in his best role) and Mitchum are equally perfect.

I like the way Hawks had handled all his action films since Only Angels Have Wings. Most of them are a bit similar despite different settings.
Ha ha, that’s why he was ignored at 1st, and became then one of the icons of the author theory, out of the Hollywood corner.

[Goodfella]

Wow, I came in here to list El Dorado as my not only my favorite non spag but probably my fav western and one of my all time favorite films in general and theres already a covo going on about it. lol

Anyway, while it is pretty much a remake of Rio Bravo I find it different enough. And in fact like it more, hence the favorite part.

The atmosphere is amazing, The inclusion of Mitchum for me means it doesnt lack a thing on the acting front, the script is fun, etc. I simply love this film. People have actually gotten angry due to my finding it superior to Bravo lol.

[Cheyenne]

For me it will always be The Searchers with John Wayne. The Duke should have won an Oscar for it. This was the Dukes best work and he study it in his own private film room for the rest of his life. He believed he never matched the performance he gave in the Searchers.
I give it an 11 out of 10. God bless you Duke!

[Karnstein]

Off the top of my head (so I know I’m gonna miss a few faves out) -

Rio Bravo
El Dorado
Stagecoach
My Darling Clementine
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Three Godfathers
Johnny Guitar
Ox Bow Incident
Yellow Sky
Day Of The Evil Gun
Hour Of The Gun
Escape From Fort Bravo
Last Train From Gun Hill
Warlock
Shalako
High Noon
Invitation To A Gunfighter
Naked Spur
Man Of The West
Silver Lode
Forty Guns
Hannie Caulder
Naked Dawn
Red Sun
Last Sunset
Ulzana’s Raid
Blood On The Moon
Bugles In The Afternoon
Seventh Cavalry
Rio Conchos
Flaming Star
Wild Bunch
Ride The High Country
Pat Garrett And Billy The Kid

Loads more as well!!

[Karnstein]

And -
The Sheriff Of Fractured Jaw
The Singer Not The Song
Day Of The Outlaw

I’ll be thinkin of cool movies all night now!