[quote=“ENNIOO, post:15, topic:827”]Participating for sure.
Just do light touring now, as I have a dodgy knee.
My longest tour was from Seattle to Mexico in 1995, which was great stuff, and I even managed to pick up a few VHS Spaghetti westerns along the way.[/quote]
Sounds fun, how long did it take?
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:4, topic:827”]Other posters choose to post their family pictures with each post, or post massive
film photos or some other posting characteristic[/quote]
All my pics are from movies, no family photos 
About four weeks, with about 80 miles cycled per day.
We used to camp in the National Parks on the cheap, as we carried a tent and gear in saddlebags.
I’ve often heard this, but there’s absolutely no evidence for it.
If the violent behaviour on the pitch were the reason for similar behaviour among fans, there would be far less football hooliganism than hooliganism related to, for instance, ice hockey.
Hooliganism was a big problem in countries like England and Germany, but the situation in both countries has improved, as far as I know. Now people know that they’ll have to pay a fine and will be banned from the stadiums, they don’t set foot on the pitch no more. Nor do they throw coins, bottles, lighters or whatever on the pitch: they know there are camera’s and they will be prosecuted. Holland still has some problems with hooliganism, mainly because both the Duth football Association and justice have been too lenient and indolent.
Very often things like vandalism, hooliganism and random violence are alcohol or drugs induced and executed by younger people, acting in groups, who know that the chances of being prosecuted are reduced. If there is no authority imposed, those people will impose their authority: they will terrorize stadiums and inner-cities, and spoil the fun for the kind-hearted.
So there are two things to be done:
a) don’t sell alcohol in or near stadiums
b) if people misbehave, give them considerable fines and bann them from the stadiums
In Holland there is virtually no hooliganism in stadiums. Football matches are better organised than one is led to believe. That’s why hooligans meet at other locations to fight it out, remember Beverwijk? The last hooligan scenes in a stadium I remember took place at a cup final between Ajax and PSV, in '98 I believe (4-0). So what you propose will have little effect. Besides that, the people in the skyboxes, who bring in a lot of money, want their alcohol as well. And it’s legally ‘impossible’ to discriminate, so an alcohol ban will never take place. Furthermore, statistically it is way more probable that problems arise around crowded football matches, than around -let’s say- hockey matches. Just look at the number of spectators. It’s also a club related thing. I’ve been to over a 100 matches of Emmen and never saw any hooliganism whatsoever. These problems are exaggerated and are merely fuel for the fire of people who hate ‘the beautiful game’. I’ve seen a number of hooligan documentaries, and as it turns out hooligans are the exact same people that pick fights at clubs and pubs. In other words, if football didn’t exist the problems would still be there. I think it’s better this way, for the simple reason it’s more transparent. (You know where these people are during a particular time frame and will have a clue of what they’re up to). Of course you’re right when you say that legislation is soft, poldermodel-esque. I agree, this needs to change. And from hat I’ve heard they’re working on it, modelling it after British legislation. I don’t believe it’s the fault of the Dutch football association. This is a social problem, which needs to be solved by governing bodies.
I’m not sure if hooliganism is a problem anymore, but racism still is. I’ve never been to a football match in Europe here in north america I always hear stories in the media about how coaches/fans/players using racial slurs and taunts towards black players. I find that disgusting.
I agree with nearly all you say.
My main statement was that if violence on the pitch were the reason for similar behaviour among supporters (SD’s original statement), there would be much more ice-hockey hooliganism than football hooliganism. My main purpose was to prove that SD’s statement was wrong.
You give more evidence for this:
An alcohol ban doesn’t solve everything, I know, still I think a lot of these problems I mentioned (vandalism etc.) are alcohol and/or drugs induced (there was an interesting article on this subject in NRC-Handelsblad, weekend edition). Maybe the situation has improved in and around the stadiums, and yes, I remember Beverwijk, but I also remember the Champion’s League game PSV - Anderlecht (2-3) of some five of six years ago. During the game (after Anderlecht scored 0-2) several Belgian supporters were beaten up by PSV-supporters who were clearly drunk, and the police did hardly anything (it was too little, too late). The incident got little attention in the Dutch press, but in Belgium, where I live, people spoke about it for weeks in newspapers (why weren’t those supporters arrested? I asked myself the same question in the stadium and afterwards).
But, on the other hand, I must admit that there are much more problems in Italy than in Holland. I should’ve mentioned Italy in the first place.
@ My dear Colonel
Racism is of course dreadful, but I don’t think it causes violence in or around the stadiums.
It is, I guess, another discussion.
Quite a difficult one, by the way, since this discussion is ‘polluted’ by discussions about religion and religion related violence/terrorism.
First of All I am impressed with both Scherp’s and Bad Lt’s knowledge of football matches and the problems relating to alcohol/drugs/hooliganism. Bad Lt has certainly attended more matches recently than I have so I may yet stand corrected on this footy topic :o
Scherp I could be wrong or not proved in my statement but I have spoken to thugs & seen Uk documentaries concerning serious endemic hooligans. The hooligans responsible for knifings, bottlings, arson, thuggery, indecent exposure :o, GBH, ABH and worse. All these hooligan thugs spoke openly of what motivated their criminal actions and most stated that when players on the football pitch spit/swear/punch/bite/kick/kiss each other then this not only provokes violence/thuggery on the terraces but it actually also justifies it in the hooligans minds. The hooligans tend to be almost brain dead, illiterate, gullible, herd/blind sheep mentality and are easily led into copying and emulating their “heroes” on the pitch.
If their “hero” footballer is doing this and that on the pitch they say why not me ??
They also stated that sick loud drug “music” got them in the mood for a big fight or hooligan acts against other supporters/people. The same noise boom boom over&over
The same lyrics inciting violence, rape, racism, hatred loudly played diseasing their
brains. Eminem sicko type street crime/filth lyrics inciting mysogeny, murder, rape etc
That is as they say evidence straight from the horse’s mouth ::).
It is not the only cause but I believe my statement is probably true and accurate.
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:28, topic:827”]Scherp I could be wrong or not proved in my statement but I have spoken to thugs & seen Uk documentaries concerning serious endemic hooligans. The hooligans responsible for knifings, bottlings, arson, thuggery, indecent exposure :o, GBH, ABH and worse all these hooligan thugs spoke openly of what motivated their criminal actions and most stated that when players on the football pitch spit/swear/punch/bite/kick/kiss each other then this not only provokes violence/thuggery on the terraces but it actually also justifies it in the hooligans minds. The hooligans tend to be almost brain dead, illiterate, gullible, herd/blind sheep mentality and are easily led into copying and emulating their “heroes” on the pitch.
That is as they say evidence straight from the horse’s mouth ::).
It is not the only cause but I believe my statement is probably true and accurate.[/quote]
It’s evidence straight from the horse’s mouth, but I’m afraid that, in this case, the horse isn’t reliable.
People, especially the kind of nearly braindead, illiterate etc. people we are talking about here, will always put the blame for their own actions on somebody else. They have (you’re absolutely right about this, no discussion here) the blind sheep mentality, but by consequense they also have their sheperds and dogs who tell them what to do, and what to say when they talk to outsiders. And probably you’re right when you say that the behaviour of their heroes justifies for them what they’re doing, but that’s still something else as to say that this behaviour causes their acts.
Apart from all this, I think there are a few football players with a violent, agressive way of playing who could serve as role models for these mindless morons.
Most players they admire in particular, are not of the violent, agressive type: Thierry Henry, David Beckham, Ronaldinho, Franz Beckenbauer, Pelé, Johan Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Bobby Charlton (good old Bobby, to talk about him on this subject is a travesty) …
OK, I know Beckham was send of in '98 (against Argentina) and Zidane’s behaviour in the last World Cup Final wasn’t exemplary, but those incident still are (luckily) … yes, incidents.
Sheep mentality are good words and there are many here in the U.K, and find it difficult to see what good things they offer back to society.
Ennio these mindless morons hooligans offer Zero to society and are a burden to ev/one.
I have stopped going to any large crowd sporting events exactly because of these
alcohol/drugs/hooligan animals that put everybody in danger. 
I love watching my cricket/golf/tennis/snooker and some cycling 
on TV live from my sofa
Scherp you are a fierce debater and I can follow your arguments very well.
I take note of your points concerning who leads who and also the evidence I saw etc.
Among your list of great players you mentioned my favourites :
Johann CRUYFF Franz BECKENBAUER
I also liked a lot Lothar MATTHEUS and going back further Karl Heinz Schnellinger 1960s
Gerd Muller, Johann Neeskens , Paolo Rossi, Uli Hoeness , Diego Maradona ;D and more.
[quote=“Col. Douglas Mortimer”]Quite true.
It might be a cause of confrontations among the players though. If I remember correctly, Zidane’'s headbutt was a retalitory response towards a racial remark: “mother is a terrorist whore”.[/quote]
No, no. Zidane (after shirt pulling): "If you want my shirt that bad, I’ll give it to you after the match"
Materazzi: “I’d rather have your sister” After which the headbutt followed.
Good luck and best wishes in The Australian Open Tennis to:
ROGER FEDERER JUSTINE HENIN
Especially the cute Belgium girl Justine, please whip those horrible Williams “brothers” :’(
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:19, topic:827”]Yes earl you see what the point is therefore ?
GOODWILL and TOLERANCE
If you make sarcastic/nasty remarks about my posting style/use of features, I can be
just as offended by your lack of style/capitals, your fuzzy forced picture and so on and on
That is why I like to if possible praise people, make a pleasant comment and be positive.
We can all find fault and be critical of anything if there is Ill will, so lets have goodwill :)[/quote]
Well it wasn’t meant as sarcastic or nasty. Sorry for the fact that it seemed that way. It’s a bit childish I think to get so angry all at once for one thing like that though…
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:34, topic:827”]Good luck and best wishes in The Australian Open Tennis to:
ROGER FEDERER JUSTINE HENIN
Especially the cute Belgium girl Justine, please whip those horrible Williams “brothers” :’([/quote]
Well, as a half-Belgian I can tell you that Justine Henin is not a very nice person.
She is small, and therefore she may seem cute, but she is a rather unpleasant, egocentric personality.
I support a girl from Serbia: I don’t remember her name, but she has dark hair, a nice pair of legs and the cutest cheeky ass imaginable.
Yes, I’m a fierce debater.
And best wishes to Roger Federer seem more or less redundant: there’s only one match the guy can possibly lose, the final of Roland Garros!!
I liked tennis more when Borg, Conners, McEnroe, Becker and Edberg were still around. Apart from Edberg, who was a very nice guy, and Borg, who was an iceberg, their behaviour wasn’t exemplary, but at least they were colourful people.
For me there’s no player to root for.
Please no 4 posts in a row. You have an edit function!
[[quote=“Bad Lieutenant, post:33, topic:827”]No, no. Zidane (after shirt pulling): "If you want my shirt that bad, I’ll give it to you after the match"
Materazzi: “I’d rather have your sister” After which the headbutt followed.[/quote]
HAHAHAHA. Thats a good exchange!!
I stand corrected. I terrorist remark I got from the newspaper, which may have reported erroneously.
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:34, topic:827”]Good luck and best wishes in The Australian Open Tennis to:
ROGER FEDERER JUSTINE HENIN
Especially the cute Belgium girl Justine, please whip those horrible Williams “brothers” :’([/quote]
I happen to like the Williams sisters. They may not be “cute”, but they are athletic , amazonian, and brutal, a new breed of athlete.
[quote=“scherpschutter, post:36, topic:827”]I liked tennis more when Borg, Conners, McEnroe, Becker and Edberg were still around. Apart from Edberg, who was a very nice guy, and Borg, who was an iceberg, their behaviour wasn’t exemplary, but at least they were colourful people.
For me there’s no player to root for.[/quote]
You said it! Those players from the 80’s made the game more interesting. I also liked Mats Wilander. What a class act that guy was.
While wer’e on the topic of sports, anybody here going to catch Roy Jones vs. Felix Trinidad this saturday?
Sorry. I fixed it. I tried doing it before but I don’t have the luxury of pristine internet connection.
Aww Col. Mortimer we dont want to spoil our good forum understanding so I will root
for Justine and you root for the Williams and may the best “man”…sorry “girl” win 
I have to confess that what I dislike about the Williams/Martin Navratilova that manly
player is the over muscular, aggressive noisy mis-behaviour during points but maybe
other players like Monica Seles were also similar…so we will let the tennis do the talking 
Scherp you mentioned some classic tennis players McEnroe, Becker, Connors, Edberg.
I have to tell you that I disliked Borg 100% because of his stiff, non expressive persona
his greasy overlong hair and his tennis style NOT for me :’(.
I liked very much John McEnroe, Ilie Nastase, and also Jimbo Connors, Stefan Edberg
plus the Czech “vampire” Count Ivan Lendl :o.
Boris Becker and Ivan Lendl were superb champions and always top draw players.
McEnroe and Nastase were absolute Box Office and people were falling off their chairs
whenever McEnroe or Nastase started “talking trash” to the opponent/umpire/press.
I was heavily entertained when Nastase walked up to the umpire banged his chair
and said “You call Me Mr. Nastase!”. ;D , Immediately the umpire says:
“Nastase you are penalised a point 15-40 ha ha :D” Nastase was as rough as a shark
Pete Sampras and Now Roger Federer are the 2 greatest ever tennis players and
magnificent athletes/tennis geniuses and absolute gentlemen.
I like Justine Henin because she is a great all round tennis champion and a fighter
Justine may seem egocentric but Scherp you dont become a champ is you are a sheep
Your Serbian girl I think is Jelena Jankovich seeded number 3 or that other Ana…?
I like Jelena too but she just scraped into the 2nd round yesterday.
PS. No capitals or bold here…but its just for today as there was nothing to really
especially highlight here