This is the picture I still have for a couple of John Wayne westerns I had watched many years ago. But after seeing A Fistul of dollars and For A Few Dollars More I never felt the need to watch any other John Wayne flick in existence.
Amigo, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion; but, I have to disagree.
But, that white shirt stuff doesn’t apply to all American Westerns. That is like saying all Italian Westerns are about a guy wearing a poncho, smoking a cigar, and is only out for money.
And I am afraid that you don’t understand the phrase, “in my book”. That means “in my opinion”.
And to think that ALL American Westerns are ridiculous IS a form of prejudice and hate (i.e. something like racism), whether you want to believe it, or not.
Have you seen ALL American Westerns? Even I haven’t seen them all (nor do I want to); so, I don’t think you can really say that they are all ridiculous.
THE WILD BUNCH is definitely not ridiculous, for example.
Well, I don’t really like most John Wayne movies, either. But, you can’t judge all American Westerns by those.
Sure, Chris. I don’t think they ALL suck, but let me tell you this: If I have to choose between an unknown gritty italian b-western and a famous american ‘classic’, I, more often than not, choose the first!
Still, there are some which I genuinely enjoyed. WILD BUNCH and most other Pekinpahs were cool for example. Recommend me some more brutal and violent ones and I will gladly give’em a try!
John Wayne shoots e.g. in Rio Bravo a fleeing rider in the back. With his rifle from a long distance.
There are US westerns with “white shirt cowboys who always win”, but all the good ones are mostly not that simple. And many of them are pretty violent for the year they were made. And enough of them had already pretty dirty images.
Whilst on the other hand many SWs look surprisingly clean, especially in the boom phase from 64 to 66.
And in the early 60s the violence and the dirtyness of US westerns were already increasing.
Generally calling a SW to be American looking means not that US westerns are bad, but that this SW is not so much looking like a typical SW, but instead more like a pale imitation of simple US b-westerns.
In the beginning I was often disappointed how many SWs didn’t had the real SW look like in Django and OuTW.
For example most of the SWs of the early years had less atmospheric costumes than their US counterparts of these years.
Agreed.
Very well stated, Stanton! I agree with all of your points.
And your remarks sum up why I say it is not right to make a blanket statement like all American Westerns are this way or that.
Just as it is wrong to say that all Italian Westerns are a certain way, as well.
I don’t have a problem with someone preferring Italian Westerns to American Westerns—most of the time I would say that I, myself, prefer them over the US films.
But, it is not right to say that an entire film genre is ridiculous and to use that as a gauge to judge other films by. Especially if you have only seen a couple of examples of that genre and didn’t care for them.
That was my main point.
Ion…
There are a lot of tough, hard-edged American Westerns that were very gritty, dirty, and violent for the time they were made (just as Stanton mentions). Since you have seen most of the Peckinpahs and seemed to find them OK, I would suggest a few films by Budd Boetticher featuring Randolph Scott. Films like THE TALL T, BUCHANAN RIDES ALONE, or RIDE LONESOME. You won’t find any graphic violence a la Peckinpah in these films, but the character types all have vicious streaks in them and the violence is more realistic than usual, for the time they were made.
Also, if you have never seen it, there is a Western, directed by Robert Aldrich, starring Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster called VERA CRUZ which, in many ways, is a prototype for Spaghetti Westerns (a film that heavily influenced Leone and Corbucci, to be sure).
By the way, I certainly don’t mean to offend anyone here!
Everyone is welcome to their opinions and preferences, and I was just stating my own.
All the best to everyone!
Well, we certainly have veered off topic haven’t we. But just to make sure I don’t get left out before we lurch back to discussing Balcazar’s little effort, here’s my two cents.
Of course we all have our own tastes. That goes without saying. But for me, if you like Spaghetti Westerns then you have to allow a certain respect for the original U.S version of the genre. Even if you’ve never seen one. Although Spaghetti’s added an original and very ‘un-American’ slant’ to the horse opera, most of what we see and like has its roots firmly in American Terra Firma. So my advice to anyone who, up til now, has not had much positive feeling towards U.S westerns is, give them a try. You might be surprised. I’ll rephrase that. Give some of the best of them a try. As Chris so rightly said, you can’t lump them all together anymore than you can films of any genre in terms of quality. A lot of U.S westerns are a bit rubbish, but just as many are magnificent and as good as anything the Italians did (imo). And I love my Spaghettis as much as anyone but I can honestly say that I have just as much respect for and get just as much pleasure from the films of Budd Boetticher, Anthony Mann and Delmer Daves as I do from most Spaghetti directors.
I know from my own recent experience with Shaw Brothers films that, if you watch the right ones and approach them in the right spirit investigating a previously dismissed group of films and filmmakers can be a very rewarding thing. 
I myself aren’t a lover of John Wayne, i have tried, i watched a handful and couldn’t get into them, i started with The Shootist for the fact it was Don Siegel and didn’t particularly like it, can’t remember the other ones i saw.
…i admit that i haven’t seen The Searchers, isn’t that actually supposed to be a good one?
THE SEARCHERS is a good one. I also like RIO BRAVO very much.
But, I am just not what one would call a John Wayne fan.
I couldn’t have said it any better,Ion
I think you feel offended,but there’s no need for it
You’re right that i don’t understand ‘in my book’,surely there are some German phrases you’ll don’t understand,too
But if you use terms like hate and racism connected with the fact,that anyone don’t like AMERICAN western,then it’s overstated and simply wrong
I knew that you’ll name ‘The wild bunch’ for a example
But in my opinion the American producers in the late 60’s recognized that they’ve been at an end with their stuff and tried to make western like the Italian ones
None of the American western can rival with the best (lets say 20) Italian western,for me,that is
And if i suppose right,this is the SPAGHETTI Western Data Base and i must say,that i’m not interested in American western
Those which i’ve seen as a child suffice to me,today they seem ridiculous to me (no offense)
I agree with Ion,if i have to choose between an Italian and an American western,i’ll always choose the Italian one
And there is nothing wrong with that!
I am not really offended, by the way.
I think we just ran into a little communication problem, amigo.
No hard feelings.
[quote=“Chris_Casey, post:27, topic:1745”]I would suggest a few films by Budd Boetticher featuring Randolph Scott. Films like THE TALL T, BUCHANAN RIDES ALONE, or RIDE LONESOME. You won’t find any graphic violence a la Peckinpah in these films, but the character types all have vicious streaks in them and the violence is more realistic than usual, for the time they were made.
Also, if you have never seen it, there is a Western, directed by Robert Aldrich, starring Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster called VERA CRUZ which, in many ways, is a prototype for Spaghetti Westerns (a film that heavily influenced Leone and Corbucci, to be sure).[/quote]
Haven’t seen any of them, but I have already noted them! Thanks for the suggestions, Chris!
You are welcome!
I underline that
You’re right,i thought the same
I understand why people consider this a more ‘American’ style western as it owes a lot to Shane in particular and has a green, mountainous backdrop that is unusual in a Spaghetti. The style however I would put down to its Spanish production roots as much as to its classical content. I have often found earlyish Spanish dominated productions (1963-67) to be more traditional in their style. The Marchent films are a good example. I have also found that despite their not having the usual spaghetti feel I often really enjoy them and find that George Martin with his ‘good guy’ head on suits them very well.
This one is a case in point. Nothing truly memorable about it by a long chalk but I found it a pleasant ride. The beautiful location was a particular plus I thought and would love to know where this was shot. As a Balcazar production shot largely in his studios in Barcelona I’m guessing that the mountain locations would be somewhere in or near the Pyrenees. They usually shot outside stuff around Fragas in Aragon but that was for the more arid, desert looking stuff. This certainly wasn’t shot there. Perhaps one of our Spanish amigos could confirm? Nzoog maybe?
Anyhow, I quite liked it despite it having a completely meaningless and grammatically mangled title. I much prefer the simple Clint the Stranger. Makes more sense.
I’ll reprint my thoughts on this here (from “last western” thread)).
“Watched the first of the Wildeast double bill - Clint the Nevada’s Loner, having previously watched the second one TANWFYT.
Virtually the same story but without the ‘charm’ of Kinski in this one. Slightly less annoying kid tho’.
These a-man’s-gotta-do-what-a-man’s-gotta-do reformed gunslinger being henpecked by a missus don’t really do it for me. I seem to remember Colorado Charlie 
was one of the worst of these types. This theme should have stayed with the American B-westerns maybe, and not have been exported across the pond.
Give me revenge-for-a-murdered-family or a treasure hunt anyday. :)”
So - I pretty much agree with most others on this thread. Only 2 outa 5 for this one.
This one has been on the to watch pile for way to long, so viewed this one tonight. The kid although annoying, was not as bad as expected. Fernando Sancho was good to see as a non bandit bad guy, but Walter Barnes was not used to any effect. Like what has been said previously more Hollywood style most of the time, but the ending is Spaghetti style with the throwing of dynamite and intense action. Prefer to the second film, as although the second film is not bad and has Kinski in…that Hellbenders score is great but belongs in The Hellbenders for me. Liked the build up to this one, but can see why many will not like very much.
I think that the spaghetti-style shootout in the town lets this film down. The ending felt extemely rushed and it’s a shame that Balcazar didn’t stay completely within the American style if that is the kind of film he wanted to make. Switching quickly between the desert and green locations ruined it for me, too. I would have preferred it remain a “green spaghetti.” The locations were very picturesque. With a better cinematographer and better direction, I think this film could have been very good.