It’s quite an odd Top 20, looking at it, with twenty four films (of which I’ve seen seventeen) and certainly a widespread. I’m surprisied that both the Coen Bros.’ True Grit and the one-two of Jeremiah Johnson and Lawman. I didn’t think a Michael Winner film would crack the top twenty (one I will have to check out). Clint Eastwood is by far the most popular director with four films in there (with ol’Sam having three). I’m surprised that Mann almost didn’t crack it (only two points away from position no. 21) and that Boetticher is has one film that is very widely loved, but his next movie is forty three points down. I am sad to see not much affection for Nicholas Ray’s Westerns. The remake of 3:10 to Yuma is (slightly) more popular than the original.
Lawman is really a surprise to me. Good cast, but by no means a good film.
I should really watch 3:10 the remake, don’t know why I haven’t so far. I have the DVD (got it for free from my newspaper a while ago)
Chris Casey managed to list a few movies I hadn’t even heard of. Good old Chris.
How many people voted? With a larger base things would be more clear, as it is right now the first choices of each voter have more gravity and influence strongly the results.
I am sad to see not much affection for Nicholas Ray's Westerns.
Apart from Johnny Guitar, what notable Westerns has he done? I had a quick look at imdb and none are immediately familiar.
He did Run for Cover with James Cagney and The True Story of Jesse James which was re-cut against his wishes.
And a famous Rodeo western set in the present: The Lusty Men with Robert Mitchum. Oopps, one I haven’t watched yet.
The first one (of only 3) which I haven’t seen yet is Boss Nigger on # 55.
Lawman is a great film for me. Just love the way Lancaster is tunnel visioned in his quest and does not flinch from what he sees is right.
The Last of the Fast Guns and Zachariah are the other 2 i never came across.
16 people have so far voted. As you say, one voter right now has a lot of sway over the list; for example, Comanche Station (at position no. 39) could get to no. 20 with one #1 vote.
Apart from Johnny Guitar, what notable Westerns has he done? I had a quick look at imdb and none are immediately familiar.My love for [b]The True Story of Jesse James[/b] (cut around with as it is) blinded me to the fact that only [b]Johnny Guitar[/b] is actually highly regarded.
3:10 to Yuma (remake) Shanghai Noon (watched a few minutes while it was on TV) Terror in a Texas Town (not sure) Rancho Notorious[b]3:10 to Yuma[/b] remake is a good, aggressive Western, but by no means a masterpiece of the best Western of the '00s. It's still worth a watch though. [b]Shanghai Noon[/b] is a pretty funny Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson Western comedy, but it isn't the best in that sub-genre and neither is it Jackie Chan's finest hour (although it is his Best American film). [b]Terror in a Texas Town[/b] is a low-budget B-movie that I haven't seen in years but sticks in my mind for its unusualness, in particular its climax. Certainly a recommend, as is Fritz Lang's [b]Rancho Notorious[/b], which I voted for, an excellent revenge-driven film.
I am still disappointed that Stagecoach did not chart higher.
For members who haven’t voted yet, you can submit your list anytime!
Stagecoach has a very simple and basic feel for a SW audience. And probably generally for an audience interested less in very old films.
That TWB “wins” this voting is surely not a surprise, cause it was clear that here the 60s/70s would be preferred to the “classic” western. I’m only surprised about the bigger than expected advance.
TWB is for the US western (at least for the 60s and 70s, but for me in general) what OuTW is for the SW. A superior film totally different in ambition and visual style to the rest. A league of its own.
And Pat Garett & Billy the Kid is for me just like GBU the logical 2nd. But surely is for that position much more controversial than GBU.
Interesting top 20 list if I may say so, with a few surprises, Pale Rider, Jeremiah Johnson, True Grit. I really thought Vera Cruz would have made it into the top 20, but at 22 it’s close enough I guess. As for Pat Garret at N0.2, it’s been a long time since i’ve seen it, and to be honest I can’t quite remember much except that it was kind of dull and Bob Dyllan looked like he was on drugs and the music sucked. Will have to rewatch it again sometime.
As for Pat Garret at N0.2, it's been a long time since i've seen it, and to be honest I can't quite remember much except that it was kind of dull and Bob Dyllan looked like he was on drugs and the music sucked.I didn't like it on the first time either and I think i saw the theatrical cut. On the second time I saw director's cut and I loved it. I didn't like the music first mainly because songs like Knocking on heaven's door has became so famous and started to live it's life outside the film. But on the second time I kept it in my mind that this is the film the song has been originally made for and I think it's great.
Dylan does look like a right dopey sod in the film, the music is good but I could have done without him starring in the film.
I think the soundtrack for Pat & Billy is fantastic. It is very sentimental which wonderfully underscores twilight tone of the movie.
No matter how many times you here that tune, this is still the most beautiful scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lxzcrWOmvg
I swear I can feel that breeze at 2:44
[size=8pt]ps: I do think #2 is little bit too high for the movie[/size]
In regard to Pat & Billy it’s, I think, essential what version you watch. I still prefer the longest (Turner) version, even if it lacks Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door. The theatrical version was a particularly dissapointing experience, when I first saw it I couldn’t understand how Peckinpah could have made such a dull movie. The version they made for the DVD release lacks a lot of good scenes (and we get very little in return), so the Turner version is the best pick. But even in that version it’s no grade A Peckinpah movie for me. There are a handful of great scenes, but too much is mediocre, and I would have preferred the movie without Dylan starring in it. His score is great though.
The DVD version of PG & BtK does lack only one scene, and this particular scene is one I would also cut out (for the Stanton cut). Unless someone can tell me what function it has for the film.
Instead the DVD version has 2 more scenes, and one of them is a very good one.
But all the scenes are tighter and the film has a much better flow. Of course due to the fine cutting some nice pieces and snippets are gone, but that’s how it always goes in the process of editing.
The theatrical version works very well. Maybe not on the first view, but when I got used to the way the story is told the film began immediately to grow on me. Unless the cut versions of TWB and Major Dundee the short theatrical version isn’t hurt that much in the butchered version, it still works pretty good because it is an episodically structured film. So it lacks some depth and is less complex, but everything is there to understand what the film is about. The vision of Peckinpah is clearly visible, maybe only a bit less easy to spot.
A masterpiece in any version. One of the most fascinating films ever. And despite being build around similar themes as TWB a completely different film.
Good work, John! An interesting list.
Thank you Chris! Praise from you is always valued. In time, with more votes, we’ll hopefully have a more definative list, with no ties in the Top 20.
I think the version of Pat & Billy they are showing these days on TCM is the same as the one I watched on DVD (around 2 hours, with Knockin’).
I would like to see that preview Turner version one day.
If there is a tie I chose the one with more votes over the one named less.
That’s the reason why in the SW list there are for many films with the same number of points not always ties. (Maybe someone wondered already but was too lazy (or was too afraid ) to ask)
Good idea. I didn’t work out which films actually got in the most lists, just how many votes they got. I’ll have to do that next week.
EDIT: Seeing as this is the “Chief” polling thread on the Western board, would it be possible to make it a “sticky” thread here, like the Top Twenty Spaghetti Western thread is?