[quote=“scherpschutter, post:9380, topic:141”]I didn’t think it was really spaghetti-ish, more like the westerns Brown would make have a decade later, such as, for instance, 100 Rifles. It’s quite brutal for its year of making, yes, and if it were made in the late seventies, people would have no doubt said that it was influenced by the Italian western, but it’s a cowboys and Indians story about stolen rifles, which sounds more Hollywood-like. Using criminals (or at least shady characters) lead by an army officer who gets the chance to redeem himself, was an idea that was ‘in the air’ at this stage in film history. The spaghetti element could be Edmond O’Brien’s obsessed southern officer, who want to continue the war with other means. Corbucci would create such a character in The Hellbenders.
(Fine film, watched it a month or so ago and still have to finish my review of it)
By the way: I didn’t know what to think of this ending with O’Brien. He’s also an actor I don’t like.[/quote]
I guess it was the violence and opening music which gave it the spaghetti feel for me. You’re right, the subject is more typically American. But that opening scene where the old Apache burial party are just shot down without any set up seems to come straight out of Rome. As does the dragging scenes and the Indian falling into the fire. As you say, if it had been made later people would certainly say it was influenced by the Italians but for a 1964 film it comes as something of a surprise in an American western.
I meant to say late sixties. I don’t know what the crucial moment is, maybe the release of Hang 'm High, sometimes called the first ‘stateside spaghetti’.
Not all Spaghetti fans are the greatest cowboys and Indians type story lovers, so may keep some people away. Shame as a refreshing U.S western for the time.
Only that Hang em High hasn’t much SW elements. Maybe even zero.
Is there anything in Hang em High which wasn’t made before in US westerns, which differs much from the films made before? Costumes are like in other US westerns of these years, violence is also not made in the Spagie style. I don’t remember the score, if there was anything to remember.
[quote=“Stanton, post:9384, topic:141”]Only that Hang em High hasn’t much SW elements. Maybe even zero.
Is there anything in Hang em High which wasn’t made before in US westerns, which differs much from the films made before? Costumes are like in other US westerns of these years, violence is also not made in the Spagie style. I don’t remember the score, if there was anything to remember.[/quote]
Maybe so but I think it’s fair to say that the producers of Hang 'em High were trying to cash in on the popularity of Clint’s Italian films. They maybe didn’t succeed in getting the content right but I do think that was their intent.
The producer was Clint himself.
And he didn’t use much (if any) of the Leone style, in this one (as far as I remember it) less than in all of his further westerns, which often rely too much on half heartedly used Leone elements (especially 2 Mules for Sister Sara). Maybe Clint wasn’t that fond of Leone when he returned to the USA.
Funnily Hang em High made more money in the USA than the Leone films
[quote=“sartana1, post:9378, topic:141”]>MATALO 1970, no coment, >:( rating 0/5<
Sartana 68, just curious, when you give a movie 0/5 do watch all the way to the end? The last movie Ive seen that Id give a 0 (Land of the Lost) I had to sit through since I was at a friends visiting. Otherwise theres no way Id have finished it!
Going to watch Trinity is Still my Name today with my son. He loves it and Im really hoping to get him watching more movies…[/quote]
i seen it 50 minutes and that’s it!! :o top crap
[quote=“tomas, post:9376, topic:141”]he´s just trying to find enjoyable SW - i hope he´ll find one someday
(nooo, just kidding, i know sartana1968 that you like sartana )[/quote]
yesssssssssss i’am crazy for sartana movies 8)
[quote=“Stanton, post:9384, topic:141”]Only that Hang em High hasn’t much SW elements. Maybe even zero.
Is there anything in Hang em High which wasn’t made before in US westerns, which differs much from the films made before? Costumes are like in other US westerns of these years, violence is also not made in the Spagie style. I don’t remember the score, if there was anything to remember.[/quote]
I wasn’t referring to the style of film making (visually the film owes some to Leone by the way, but it lacks his ritual build-ups and sudden discharges of violence, the action is presented in a more classical way), but to the level of the violence, and the overall atmosphere. It has a rather nasty atmosphere, with Clint surviving his own hanging and pursuing his revenge quest, even as a lawman.
Clint is also the new type of western hero, not a man who does what he’s gotta do, but a man who’s hired by the authorities because they can use him, a man who’s determined and ready to kill.
The soundtrack isn’t in the style of Morricone, but it’s what Philip French calls ‘an overloaded soundtrack’, it’s very intrusive, which is (in his and also my opinion) a thing Italy gave to Hollywood
[quote=“Stanton, post:9386, topic:141”]The producer was Clint himself.
And he didn’t use much (if any) of the Leone style, in this one (as far as I remember it) less than in all of his further westerns, which often rely too much on half heartedly used Leone elements (especially 2 Mules for Sister Sara). Maybe Clint wasn’t that fond of Leone when he returned to the USA.
Funnily Hang em High made more money in the USA than the Leone films[/quote]
He wasn’t, he didn’t like this slow, ritual, protracted way of film making of Leone (he hated above all the walk into the desert of GBU, which lasted far too long in his opinion).
Hang 'm High has a desert scene (Clint fighting one of his prisoners) and a few other scenes that are leonesque, but they’re edited in a crisper way to make them look faster, less ritualistic. Clint repeatedly said, after he had become a director himself, that he had learned far more from Don Siegel than from Sergio. The theme of his westerns is often closer to the things he did with Siegel too. Coogan’s Bluff and Dirty Harry were very important movies in this aspect. One of the recurring themes in his westerns, is that law inforcement easily comes close to legal butchery. This is already a theme in Hang 'm High, it returns in Pale Rider and Unforgiven (which is a comment on many on some of these themes that dominated his movies).
I agree re the atmosphere, but is softned a little with the Clint love interest half way through the film. Clint is back in Rawhide mode in these scenes for me, as in Rawhide he was always trying to chat alot of the women up.
Its only natural that there is some SW influence, but he was already developing his own style by filming scenes differently from Leone (I know he didn’t direct the movie himself, but he had a voice in the procedings)
A Dutch professor in cultural studies, Karel van het Reve, once described this as ‘a negative influence’ (as opposed to a positive influence): an artist copies things he likes in the works of other artists (the way something is described, shown or filmed, etc.), and these things are very important for the developement of own his style, but he also sees things in other artists’ works (sometimes one and the same artist) he does not like, and therefore does not copy (instead he does the same thing in a radically different way), and these things are equally important. For Clint the film maker, Leone was both a positive and a negative influence.
Minnesota Clay by Corbucci
ugh
i was little bored by this, it certainly had some moments, but…
i think the biggest problem i have with this flick is Cameron Mitchell
and also quite naive dialogues
i admire Corbucci - it is miraculous how he developed further his filmmaker abilities
[quote=“tomas, post:9396, topic:141”]Minnesota Clay by Corbucci
i think the biggest problem i have with this flick is Cameron Mitchell[/quote]
I disagree, Mitchell was perfect for this role, and he was quite good, imo. For an early revenge spaghetti western it’s not bad at all. This is an entertaining film that i found enjoyable.
I would have never guessed Minnesota Clay was an SW if it didnt have Sergio Corbucci’s name on the case… I havent watched one pre 1966 western since seeing it. I didnt hate it but definitely not my cup of tea. Hope they dont show it as one of those upcoming screenings in Hollywood! Watched Trinity is Still My Name last night. Without a doubt, the best SW comedy. ;D
[quote=“tomas, post:9396, topic:141”]Minnesota Clay by Corbucci
ugh
i was little bored by this, it certainly had some moments, but…
i think the biggest problem i have with this flick is Cameron Mitchell
and also quite naive dialogues
i admire Corbucci - it is miraculous how he developed further his filmmaker abilities[/quote]
minesota clay very good SW and a 1000 times than ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST for me
)[/quote]