The Hellbenders / I crudeli (Sergio Corbucci, 1967)


(alk0) #81

In my opinion Castellari was a hit and miss in this department. Action scenes in Keoma are some of the best i’ve seen, but on the other hand action scenes from The new barbarians are very awkwardly directed.


(ION BRITTON) #82

I don’t hold in very high regard his post apocalyptic films generally, but at least in Kill them all and come back alone, Any gun can play and Keoma the action scenes are perfectly shot imo.

Oh, and i like The Last Shark quite a lot.

Edit: I must agree with brother Angel Face as far the ending of Johnny Oro is concernced. Explosions on such a film was the last thing i was expecting and generally the direction of the action left me absolutely satisfied.


(alk0) #83

I don’t :wink:


(Angel Face) #84

I haven’t enjoyed everything he’s done myself (HEROIN BUSTERS was awful although it had a couple good stunts in it) but particularly in his westerns his action scenes were often miles away better than those from other directors. In other films, the participants swing their fists or legs wildly or badly telegraph their every move. In Castellari’s movies, he often includes several imaginative set pieces, that for me, make his movies most enjoyable in that department.


(Stanton) #85

It’s not a matter of budget, it’s a matter of conception and editing. Many directors have made tremendeous action scenes with a small budget

Which scenes were shot by other directors? And Margheriti? Never heard about him working for Leone.

If it’s 2nd unit work the question would be, had the 2nd unit director also conceived the shooting or did he only what Leone told them to do?

I knew that Giraldi shot the river ambush for FoD, but I think Leone would have done this better in his later films (irrespective of who shot or conceived this scne actually). Same for the cemetery shooting. In fact I think if he had made FoD after he had developed his skills and after he was thinking more about which action scene a film needs and which not, he would have skipped both scenes more or less, or had shown them only indirect.

No both scenes don’t work, they look rather … well, they look rather childish, not as mature as the rest of FoD.


(Stanton) #86

No sorry, but most of the slo mo scenes are not good or let’s say unimaginative. Keoma is his best western, yes, but it falls apart as there are some very good scenes but also rather dull ones. (But I’m repeating now myself)

The end, when Keoma kills his brothers is great, the fistfights are awful, also several of the other slo mo killings are terrible. Castellari likes Peckinpah, but he obviously hadn’t checked how to make slo mo work. Strangely most directors before the mid-nineties failed when they used slo mo, but since then there is an eruption of brillant slo mo scenes.


(Stanton) #87

No, actually the end is the low point of the film, quite a bit boring I have to admit. Corbucci had still to learn, and Django was a major step ahead.


(Angel Face) #88

[quote=“Stanton, post:85, topic:578”]It’s not a matter of budget, it’s a matter of conception and editing. Many directors have made tremendeous action scenes with a small budget

Which scenes were shot by other directors? And Margheriti? Never heard about him working for Leone.

If it’s 2nd unit work the question would be, had the 2nd unit director also conceived the shooting or did he only what Leone told them to do?

I knew that Giraldi shot the river ambush for FoD, but I think Leone would have done this better in his later films (irrespective of who shot or conceived this scne actually). Same for the cemetery shooting. In fact I think if he had made FoD after he had developed his skills and after he was thinking more about which action scene a film needs and which not, he would have skipped both scenes more or less, or had shown them only indirect.

No both scenes don’t work, they look rather … well, they look rather childish, not as mature as the rest of FoD.[/quote]

Time and budget can put constraints on how a particular scene looks onscreen regardless of a directors talent. But, yes, many directors have made impressive sequences with little resources.

Margheriti doing all the miniature work on DUCK, YOU SUCKER and Alberto De Martino shooting the action scenes during the finale comes to mind.


(Angel Face) #89

Wow. Not to me it wasn’t. The only thing I found a bit lacking during this action packed blow out ending was the duel that closed the picture. In reference to KEOMA’s fistfights, I find the bulk of fights in SW’s to be awful although there are a number of exceptions. The Italians used slow motion way too much back then anyways, but KEOMA is a quality film from start to finish, IMO.


(Stanton) #90

Of course some action scenes can only be done with a certain amount of money. If you have no money you should make only films appropriate to your budget.

Margheriti doing all the miniature work on DUCK, YOU SUCKER and Alberto De Martino shooting the action scenes during the finale comes to mind.

Frayling doesn’t mention their contributions. Where is this sourced from?


(Stanton) #91

He he , yeah, so opinions distinguish from another …


(Angel Face) #92

An interview with Margheriti in a horror publication from Dark Side Magazine. There are interviews with Deodato, Fulci, Lenzi, Martino and others. There is little mention of westerns, but both Margheriti and Deodato talk about shooting westerns. Deodato states that he directed all the footage in DJANGO that was done in Spain among some other mentions.


(korano) #93

[quote=“Stanton, post:75, topic:578”]But Corbucci wasn’t able to handle big action scenes before The Mercenary.
The small ones, like in the beginning of Johnny Oro or Django, are very, very good, but they are similar to the way Leone did them.

The mass shootouts at the end of Johnny Oro, in Django (3 long scenes) or the train assault in Navajo Joe are all rather stiff and awkward. Especially such a fine film like Django is hurt by these shortcomings. Some of these scenes are wrong by the way they were constructed, some others would probably work if they were cut like later shootouts in The Mercenary and in Companeros.

When Django confronts the clansmen in the muddy street, this should be an absolute highpoint of the film, but surprisingly it looks rather lame. It’s still not a bad scene because of its powerful basic idea, but, shit, this could be much better.

But Leone wasn’t better with big action scenes, maybe his only major fault. The river ambush and the cemetery shootout are the weakest scenes in FoD. And the bridge ambush and the finale of DYS don’t work either.
Otherwise Leone was brillant in conceiving and directing action scenes.

And Castellari, well, according to his westerns, viewed as an action director, forget him.
Nothing special when he succeeds, but often his action scenes make only a helples impression to me.
But I will try to see a few of his non-westerns in the near future.[/quote]Leone’s action fals mainly in pitched shootouts but he greatly excells in short bursts of action where the intensity comes from the calm and slow build up to the actua violence. Here, he doesn’t need to include fancy editing or some other techniques, just calmly show the hero quickly mowing down the targets. Mainly in Once Upon a Time in the West.

But he fails in pitched battles because his style is not fast. He often intertwines action with other scenes like in a fistful at the Cemetery. In DYS, his battle scenes get a little old because it is just a bunch of editing between machinegun target, machine gun target etc… It gets old but these are pretty cool scenes. Just not top notch.

Corbucci for example, can adequatley handle action. I seemto pay more attention to editing lately in gunfights. The best editin is when there is the shot of th gunman firing then a quick edit to the taret falling. I hate it when they show the target falling but no shot of the gunman. A lot of this happens in God Said to Cain which I have learned to watch mostly for the atmosphere. The specialist has these gunfights that are very interestingly filmed with VERY quick editing with other camera angles and edits that create a very chaotic feel.


(autephex) #94

Agreed about Django. Mainly the mid chunk of the film, the scenes involving the big robbery of the gold by Django and the bandits- this section of the film has always dragged Django way down for me… always get quite bored and restless waiting for this sequence to be over. I think the famous gatling gun scene could of been done better, definitely… but it doesn’t bore me or get on my nerves

I didn’t mind the train sequence on Navajo Joe. Wasn’t as good as some of the other sequences in the film, but certainly doesn’t suffer from the same boredum-creation as the previously mentioned Django sequence.

Big action sequences must just be tough to handle, regardless of who you are- because I find myself getting restless with the majority of movies trying to present big shootouts. Like korano points out, I think I would have a ball with them if just some simple camera & editing techniques were used… so often its just this guy shooting, cut to that guy shooting, cut back to this guy, then that guy over there falls off the roof/down the stairs… but its all done with static camera work, no movement


(autephex) #95

just catching up on the previous pages… great discussions and analysis in this here topic, interestin’ reading


(Novecento) #96

Yes, I was really unimpressed by this one. It didn’t seem to me to have any of what makes Corbucci so distinct.

I remember not liking the score too much either. I just listened to it again and although it’s not bad I certainly don’t rate it up there with Morricone’s best.


(ENNIOO) #97

Love the main theme aswell as the whole score to this one.


(I...I...Idiot) #98

I love Joseph Cotten & enjoyed his role in this movie. Not as dark as I like my sw’s but it had enough moments to keep me watching. The story itself was not that original but what happens to them along their travels ties the story together nicely. I loved the twist in the coffin at the end (minus JC’s death crawl).


(ENNIOO) #99

[size=1]Cotten is obsessed in this one and thats why I like the character.[/size]


(I...I...Idiot) #100

by rosebud?