In the Frayling book it was blown up only twice, but who knows ā¦
I also traced a Facebook contribution that mentions three times, but it also dates from 2025, so it probably goes back to this article, or a common source. Iāll check some Italian sources later
I have only ever heard of it being blown twice
Lucky bridgeā¦. 
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So it seems like they found the cannon
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Here is some English language news.
I have to admit that originally I thought Cartagena, Colombia, but Cartagena, Murcia (spain) makes more sense of course, stupid me
I want to object to all the hate the Grotto scene is getting. It was in the original film shown at the premiere in Rome, so Leone clearly wanted it included as far as we can tell.
It also restores continuity, as it doesnāt make sense for Wallach to suddenly show up with an entourage of gunmen without any explanation where they came from.
Leoneās films arenāt about saving time - you wanted a āmore efficientā version, you could probably start the film at the scene where Tuco and Blondi come across the wagon in the desert (as far as the story goes, you could probably explain the key details of what happened up to that point with a short introductory text, like in Star Wars).
Some people even find that the final standoff is too long (which is heresy to me).
I find the extended version absolutely perfect (although I have to admit the extended version was the one I first watched, and that raised my interest in the genre).
Iāve seen the cut version on YouTube, and it doesnāt work anywhere near as well for me as the full version. That scene is one of the best in the movie.
I absolutely adore every second of that film, so I think the restored version is absolutely perfect.
The only problem I have is that in the scene where Eli Wallach jumps off the train, the train sounds like a robotic mess for a few seconds (which is particularly sad as I love the sound of steam engines).
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I also watched the extended version the first time I saw this film, back in 2004.
So I did not really knew which scenes was inserted.
Maybe I noticed the voices was different, I donāt remember. But I did not have any problem with the grotto scene, or any other scene. I just liked everything.
I prefer watching some of longer versions now avaliable over the shorter international version.
I doubt folks take issue with the grotto scene per se rather than itās pacing and/or what it does to the filmās pacing. And the length of the sceneā¦ It was bad editing maybe, in hindsight
I can see their point, but I disagree. Maybe the Grotto scene could have been slightly shortened, but since the entire first half of the film is basically an introduction to the characters, and given it has a total run time of 3 hours either way, I totally approve of the approach they took (trying to restore as much as possible of this cult classic).
The film could probably be cut down to about an hour if you left out everything that isnāt strictly necessary to further the plot, but then it wouldnāt be the masterpiece that it is. The final standoff for example lasts for several minutes without anything happening - but itās as amazing as it is BECAUSE it gives Morriconeās brilliant score the breathing room to shine. If you wanted a fast-paced version, the whole scene could easily be cut down to under a minute. (Iām not saying I would like the idea, but it would probably be possible whilst leaving the plot intact if a fast-paced version of the film were desirable).
I doubt that this is true. Grimaldi claimed that to justify its inclusion on the Special Edition DVD, but the Italians relinquished to include it on their DVDs.
There is no real evidence for that apart from Grimaldiās claim, and Grimaldi may just have misremembered that.
The premiere was only one day before the nationwide release on 23.12.66. At that time all the 35 mm copies must already have been shipped to the theatres, it is unlikely that they could have cut out that scene so quickly.
The version submitted to the censorship board on 15.12.66 ran 179 min with 4840 m, thatās the released version without the grotto scene. That all makes it very unlikely that the Rome premiere featured the scene.
In 1969 a shorter version was submitted to the censorship board with about 20 min cut out (shorter than the US version), but with the grotto scene added. So the scene was still there, but that version was never released, and the Italians only saw the grotto scene for the first time, like we all, some 20 years ago. When the long version was restored in the early 80s all the cut scenes were put back (but not the full torture scene) and the grotto scene again was not used.
So the scene was there (unlike the missing Socorro scene), it must have been considered at some point in 1966 to be in the film, but it never made any version as long as Leone was alive, so it seems Leone finally did not wanted it to be in.
It also is not sure if Italian audio for that scene exists. Was that scene meanwhile released on any Italian disc?
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The inconsistent dialogue is annoying in that scene.
Tuco says āThe world is divided into two partsā instead of āThere are two kinds of people in the worldā
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After some research, I found that Leone cut the scene to shorten the overall run time/keep pacing, but I also found out some people attending early screenings and/or the premiere remembered seeing the Grotto scene, so apparently there must have been a sort of āpreviewā cut that differed from what was sent out to cinemas nationwide (with the latter not including the grotto scene).
Itās not my favourite scene in the film, but I find it important to maintain narrative continuity, and it also helps to show Tucoās character to first-time viewers.
What I can tell you for sure that Italian audio for the scene DOES exist, and it always existed. In fact, the Italian version doesnāt have the flaw of having the original actors needing to return in old age (Eli Wallach was 90 y.o. at the time) to read their lines, as the Italian audio for the scene was recorded as part of the rest of the movie (otherwise the preview cut would have been silent).
Thatās interesting, where did you find that?
Itās in the Wikipedia article (section āReleaseā, subsection āTheatricalā).
As sources, it links to some of the original correspondence with the censorship bureau, and to a website on waybackmachine which compares the US and Italian versions maticulously, and clearly states that the Grotto scene was shown in the version seen at the premiere in Rome.
The 1st and 2nd attempts were actually the same event. The cameras werenāt rolling because no one had intentionally given the signal, it was a misunderstanding on behalf of the Spanish captain. He was so embarrassed by this that he agreed to rebuild the bridge for free, and on the 2nd blast, they had an Italian on the trigger so there wouldnāt be any misunderstandings. The one failed attempt already caused enough trouble for the production. This is what Eastwood said in an interview about GBU.
All these quotes come from the same source, and that is Grimaldi (at least I think so). They are all copying from each other. And I think that he maybe misremembered that, and gave above some reasons why I doubt that the premiere version featured the grotto scene.
The Italian version on censorship. com is not the theatrical version from 1966, that one had a 178 min runtime without grotto.
I have an article from an Italian who analysed all the censorship cards, he saw the film already in 1966 and then about 30 times since then, and has never seen the grotto scene before it appeared on the SE DVD.
Also it seems that there is something wrong with the score of the grotto in the English dub, which may be sourced in not having original audio.
Of course I can be wrong, sources are often contradicting, and Leone himself made several wrong claims about his own films.
But you said:
And that would be interesting, cause so far no Italian I asked has seen this scene before 2004. Also so far I donāt remember if it was released with Italian audio on one of the newer discs. But maybe the Italians here in the forum know more about this.
The Italian audio for āThe Grottoā scene can be heard on the Extended Cut (disc 2) of the Kino Lorber blu-ray (2017). Itās definitely the voice of Carlo Romano (1908-1975), the actor who dubbed Eli Wallach.
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Thanks, I wasnāt sure about that yesterday, but In retrospect, the fact that the scene was shown to the censorship board in 1969 should imply that it was completely dubbed.
Montero, do you know if the score is the same for the Italian and the English audio? There were some doubts about the score of the English version compared to the soundtrack.