Ha ha, ok then, a bizarre and irksome list from some retarded guy … 
1 Like
Who the fuck is Barry Stone? 
3 Likes
If I made a list I wouldn’t be surprised if it got a few laughs because I don’t know many American westerns other than the most popular ones. My list would be mostly spags.
1 Like
Whatever list that is drawn up McCabe. & Mrs Miller should not make it. I’m surprised JERAMIAH JOHNSON didn’t make Barry Stoned.
Disagree. That would be way near the top in my list. Just goes to show how subjective these things are. Of course, it’s largely due to Vilmos Zsigmond that it climbs that high.
I think it is.
The last version we have before non-Peckinpah forces tinkered with it does not flow properly for me. Peckinpah’s version is almost poetic in its transitions and beautiful bookending. If you tally up the actual minutes, the difference might not seem that big. But the collective impact of those minutes on a holistic viewing experience is huge in my opinion. It’s depressing how many people watch the non-Peckinpah-sanctioned revised cut and think of that as the film Peckinpah intended. That’s not to knock the revised cut because it’s intention was never to replace the earlier cut. Unfortunately we have the producers/distributors to blame for that. Seydor’s book outlining the logic behind the new cut is fascinating even if I disagree with the end result.
Lol. Maybe top5 film for me. It was at number 33. when we did the voting.
Of course not, it is due to Altman’s revisionist view on the genre.
But you are right about the subjective view. Maybe here are so many out up by such a simple list because of the term “greatest westerns” in the sense of “the best westerns”. But even if Stone thinks these are the best westerns, these are only the best westerns in his opinion. The list expresses at best his way of looking at the genre. Other people have different approaches towards the genre, and will offer a partly or even very differently list.
The best thing to do with that list, like with every other list, is to just view it as his personal favourites. And he seems to be at least a guy who has a lifelong relationship with the genre, and it is especially that which makes such an list interesting. Cause he has most likely seen an awful lot of westerns, not only the usual ones.
It would have been more polite to say M&M would not have been on mine. Thinking about it the big minus for me was Warren Beatty. After rewatching BALLA OF CABLE HOGUE recently i just thought I can see Jason Robards doing the McCabe role nobody plays the scallywag like him!
All the talk of the different PAT GARRET AND BILLY THE KID is fascinating (a film that should be in the top ten of any list) I have only seen the version I have seen is on my DVD.
Well, like before, I completely disagree with that.
The despite great flaws still magnificent theatrical version was influenced by the studio’s will to make a short and more commercial version, but was mostly fine cut by Peckinpah’s editors, the longer cut in only a rough cut (and suffers from that), a cut which demands the very important fine cutting, and the 115 in version is a compromise of both previous versions made much later, but it is for me the one which does the film the most justice.
But as yousurely remember, the perfect version, the infamous Stanton cut, was never released … sigh …
1 Like
Read that list. I think it is much better, more to my of thinking. 
I think it would be great for the SWDB to tackle another genre.
The cinematographer?
We will agree to disagree on McCabe and Mrs Miller 
but Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid is my personal favourite Peckinpah and I am interested in its history. I really need to rewatch The Wild Bunch too. I cannot really rank it on vague memories.
Yes one of the all-time greats. He also shot another favorite western of mine (not in the list above) “Heaven’s Gate”.
You’re correct. Altman also had a lot to do with how great it was. It was a coming together of two incredible talents: Altman and Zsigmond
Actually it’s the same for Heaven’s Gate. Michael Cimino is quite possibly the most underrated director ever. Cimino and Zsigmond made for one incredible film (the negative criticism at the time was because most critics failed to do the one thing they were supposed to do: review the actual film)
I’d love to see that one. There’s also the TV version too. One day, I hope someone releases the four disc special. Right now all we have is the Peckinpah TCM rough cut and the Seydor 2005 cut. As I said, I respect Seydor’s book and his attempt, but you’ll never catch me watching that instead of the Peckinpah TCM version.
1 Like
Heaven’s Gate isn’t a favourite either but the cast is amazing. The film is too long for me. At 200 minutes plus it was too long for me. The thrifty English man in me would have rather had parts 1&2.
Also I didn’t see why this film on it’s release would be criticised as one of the worst films ever made.
Because they didn’t review the film. There’s an interesting book all about the back story.
I’m in the minority of people who prefer the shorter 149 minute version. I bought the German Blu-ray and was happy to see it included as an option. There’s a few scenes I did miss from the longer version though.
That’s more like it!
I’m the same with LORD OF THE RINGS. I have joked that there should be FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING part 1 and 2. Although LOR are not really my thing.
Regarding the theatrical version of Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid, nowadays one can get the impression that this film did not get any recognition before a longer cut appeared in 1988, but that is not true. Peckinpah’s film found a lot of admirers from the beginning on. Having returned to Hardy’s Western encyclopedia, I also reread his entry about Pat Garrett, which was written before the longer cut was released, and it starts with “A masterpiece, despite being mangled” and ends with “This film is essential viewing”. I easily agree, and in between there is this quote: "Peckinpah offers what one critic has called ‘a paralysed epic’ ". Paralysed epic, that wonderfully describes the fatalistic view of the film, in which (unlike the exploding The Wild Bunch) everything implodes.
1 Like
I’ll have to give the theatrical cut a watch. I do have the old VHS of Pat Garrett.
Here’s another list.
In 1994 the German genre oriented film magazine Steadycam asked 52 critics, historians and film-makers (mostly from Germany) about their 13 favourite westerns. Here’s the result with the most named westerns:
| 1 | * | 27 | * | The Searchers | * | Ford, John |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2 | * | 22 | * | Red River | * | Hawks, Howard |
| 2 | * | 22 | * | Rio Bravo | * | Hawks, Howard |
| 4 | * | 20 | * | My Darling Clementine | * | Ford, John |
| 5 | * | 17 | * | Forty Guns | * | Fuller, Sam |
| 6 | * | 16 | * | Unforgiven | * | Eastwood, Clint |
| 7 | * | 15 | * | Johnny Guitar | * | Ray, Nicholas |
| 8 | * | 13 | * | She Wore a Yellow Ribbon | * | Ford, John |
| 9 | * | 12 | * | Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid | * | Peckinpah, Sam |
| 10 | * | 11 | * | Ride Lonesome | * | Boetticher, Budd |
| 10 | * | 11 | * | The Naked Spur | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 12 | * | 10 | * | The Wild Bunch | * | Peckinpah, Sam |
| 13 | * | 10 | * | C’ era una volta il West | * | Leone, Sergio |
| 14 | * | 9 | * | Stagecoach | * | Ford, John |
| 15 | * | 9 | * | Vera Cruz | * | Aldrich, Robert |
| 16 | * | 8 | * | Ride the High Country | * | Peckinpah, Sam |
| 16 | * | 8 | * | The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance | * | Ford, John |
| 18 | * | 8 | * | Man of the West | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 18 | * | 8 | * | One Eyed Jacks | * | Brando, Marlon |
| 18 | * | 8 | * | Winchester 73 | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 18 | * | 8 | * | High Noon | * | Zinnemann, Fred |
1 Like
And the other westerns which were at least named twice:
| 7 | * | Destry Rides Again | * | Marshal, George |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | * | El Dorado | * | Hawks, Howard |
| 7 | * | Garden of Evil | * | Hathaway, Henry |
| 7 | * | Jeremiah Johnson | * | Pollack, Sydney |
| 7 | * | McCabe & Mrs. Miller | * | Altman, Robert |
| 7 | * | River of No Return | * | Preminger, Otto |
| 7 | * | The Professionals | * | Brooks, Richard |
| 6 | * | Bend of the River | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 6 | * | Gunfight at the O.K. Corral | * | Sturges, John |
| 6 | * | Heaven’s Gate | * | Cimino, Michael |
| 6 | * | Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo | * | Leone, Sergio |
| 6 | * | Man Without a Star | * | Vidor, King |
| 6 | * | Per un pugno di Dollari | * | Leone, Sergio |
| 6 | * | Pursued | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 6 | * | Shane | * | Stevens, George |
| 6 | * | The Big Sky | * | Hawks, Howard |
| 6 | * | The Man From Laramie | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 6 | * | Silverado | * | Kasdan, Lawrence |
| 5 | * | Duel in the Sun | * | Vidor, King |
| 5 | * | No Name on the Bullet | * | Arnold, Jack |
| 5 | * | Rancho Notorious | * | Lang, Fritz |
| 5 | * | Run of the Arrow | * | Fuller, Sam |
| 5 | * | Seven Men from Now | * | Boetticher, Budd |
| 5 | * | The Big Country | * | Wyler, William |
| 5 | * | The Lusty Men | * | Ray, Nicholas |
| 5 | * | The Outlaw Josey Wales | * | Eastwood, Clint |
| 5 | * | The Tall Men | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 4 | * | 3:10 to Yuma | * | Daves, Delmer |
| 4 | * | Buchanan Rides Alone | * | Boetticher, Budd |
| 4 | * | Comanche Station | * | Boetticher, Budd |
| 4 | * | Lonely Are the Brave | * | Miller, David |
| 4 | * | Se sei vivo spara | * | Questi, Giulio |
| 4 | * | The Big Trail | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 4 | * | The Far Country | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 4 | * | The Horse Soldiers | * | Ford, John |
| 4 | * | The Last Frontier | * | Mann, Anthony |
| 4 | * | The Shooting | * | Hellman, Monte |
| 4 | * | The Shootist | * | Siegel, Don |
| 4 | * | The Wonderful Country | * | Parrish, Robert |
| 4 | * | Westward the Women | * | Wellman, William A. |
| 4 | * | Two Rode Together | * | Ford, John |
| 3 | * | Along the Great Divide | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 3 | * | Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid | * | Hill, George Roy |
| 3 | * | Jesse James | * | King, Henry |
| 3 | * | Little Big Man | * | Penn, Arthur |
| 3 | * | Northwest Passage | * | Vidor, King |
| 3 | * | Ride in the Whirlwind | * | Hellman, Monte |
| 3 | * | Rio Grande | * | Ford, John |
| 3 | * | Silver Lode | * | Dwan, Allan |
| 3 | * | The Ballad of Cable Hogue | * | Peckinpah, Sam |
| 3 | * | The Bravados | * | King, Henry |
| 3 | * | The Last Hunt | * | Brooks, Richard |
| 3 | * | The Magnificent Seven | * | Sturges, John |
| 3 | * | The Return of Frank James | * | Lang, Fritz |
| 3 | * | Ulzana’s Raid | * | Aldrich, Robert |
| 3 | * | Wagonmaster | * | Ford, John |
| 2 | * | Apache Drums | * | Fregonese Hugo |
| 2 | * | Broken Arrow | * | Daves, Delmer |
| 2 | * | Cat Ballou | * | Silverstein, Elliot |
| 2 | * | Cheyenne Autumn | * | Ford, John |
| 2 | * | Colorado Territory | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 2 | * | Django | * | Corbucci, Sergio |
| 2 | * | Dodge City | * | Curtiz, Michael |
| 2 | * | Fort Apache | * | Ford, John |
| 2 | * | Giu’ la testa | * | Leone, Sergio |
| 2 | * | Great Day in the Morning | * | Tourneur, Jacques |
| 2 | * | High Plain’s Drifter | * | Eastwood, Clint |
| 2 | * | Hombre | * | Ritt, Martin |
| 2 | * | Il grande silenzio | * | Corbucci, Sergio |
| 2 | * | Major Dundee | * | Peckinpah, Sam |
| 2 | * | Monte Walsh | * | Fraker, William A. |
| 2 | * | Pale Rider | * | Eastwood, Clint |
| 2 | * | Run for Cover | * | Ray, Nicholas |
| 2 | * | Shichi-nin no Samurai | * | Kurosawa, Akira |
| 2 | * | Silver River | * | Walsh, Raoul |
| 2 | * | The Gunfighter | * | King, Henry |
| 2 | * | The Indian Fighter | * | De Toth, André |
| 2 | * | The Iron Horse | * | Ford, John |
| 2 | * | The Last Of The Mohicans | * | Mann, Michael |
| 2 | * | The Last Sunset | * | Aldrich, Robert |
| 2 | * | The Last Train from Gun Hill | * | Sturges, John |
| 2 | * | The Left Handed Gun | * | Penn, Arthur |
| 2 | * | The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean | * | Huston, John |
| 2 | * | The Outlaw | * | Hughes, Howard |
| 2 | * | The Unforgiven | * | Huston, John |
| 2 | * | The Virginian | * | Fleming, Victor |
| 2 | * | Union Pacific | * | DeMille, Cecil B. |
| 2 | * | Winnetou I | * | Reinl, Harald |
1 Like