Sub-genres


(ekimklaw) #1

What are some of the main sub-genres of the SW? I have seen (so-called) Zapata (revolution), Revenge… what other ones?


(Silence) #2

Twilight, Early Westerns, Early Spanish Westerns, East Meets West… Not so sure about the two ones after Twilight. And then there are also Snow Westerns.

And of course all of the “country food” Westerns:

Paella Western
Tortilla Western
Kebab Western
Goulash Western
Souvlaki Western
Meatball Western
And Finnish Westerns. Do not know what we call them. And the American ones are Hamburger Westerns. And the there are of course…

[size=36pt]SPAGHETTI WESTERN[/size]


(dicfish) #3

You forgot one subgenre, nobody likes them, but they certainly exist:
The Comedy-Westerns.

Oh, and which food do you take for German westerns?


(The Stranger) #4

Krautwestern :wink:


(scherpschutter) #5

I don’t know if it’s an official or semi-official term, but I’ve often heard Sauerkrautwestern


(Major Clyde) #6

Not Schnitzelwestern?


(korano) #7

All I know of:

Comedy
Zapata
Autumnal (unofficial)
Circus (UO)
Twilight
Snow
Kung Fu
Gothic
Buddy (Debatable)
Political
Revisionist (Not widely recognized as a spaghetti sub genre, never the less)
Exploitation
Proto (pre fistful)
Civil War


(Silence) #8

Isn’t Zapata and Political the same thing? Or Twilight and Revisionist?


(korano) #9

Not exactley. Though Zapatas are political, there are several political spaghettis that aren’t zapatas like price of power. and though twilights are revisionist, revisionist is not twilight. Brother’s blu is a revisionist spaghetti that isn’t twilight.


(The Stranger) #10

The Schnitzel comes from Austria more. :wink:

Krauts comes from the derogatory term for German people. For example, this term was often used to refer to German immigrants in the U.S., or by British and American soldiers in World War II to their German opponents.
Another example is the so-called Kraut Line: This was a forward line of the Boston Bruins in the NHL (ice-hockey) from the 30’s and 40 years. They included three of German descent Milt Schmidt, Bobby Bauer and Woody Dumart. The name of Krauts is related to the North American prejudice that sauerkraut was the favorite dish of all Germans, and they are thus referred to as Krauts.

Therefore the name Krautwestern or Sauerkrautwestern. :wink:


(scherpschutter) #11

I knew about the use of Kraut as a derogatory term for Germans (best use: Basil Fawlty in you know what), but this Kraut-line in ice-hockey was knew to me.

Favourite dish: Dutch people are called Kaaskoppen by people from Flanders; the idea behind it is that all Dutchmen eat cheese (kaas). The French are sometimes called slakkenvreters, because of their habit to eat snails (slak = snail, German: Schnecke - had to look this up!)


(dicfish) #12

Stop talking about Schnitzel, Kraut and other food! I’m getting hungry! :smiley:


(Stanton) #13

The French are called in Germany Frogeaters.


(El Topo) #14

Men we are slakkenvreters all right here in Portugal one of the national unoffical plates (well not for me anyway) can be found in any tavern.


(natos99) #15

I’dd like to see more Horror style westerns… well horror themes anyway no point in trying to make stuff scarey these days


(ekimklaw) #16

How bout a good example of each one? What about these?

Mysterious Stranger - Django, Fistful of Dollars, Cemetery Without Crosses
Gold/Treasure - The Ruthless Four, Good, Bad, & Ugly
Bounty Hunter - For A Few Dollars More, Good, Bad, & Ugly
Revenge - Once Upon a Time in the West,
Comedy - The Trinity movies
Zapata - Companeros, The Mercenary, Bullet For The General
Autumnal -
Circus - Boot Hill
Twilight -
Snow - Great Silence, Taste of Death
Kung Fu - The Stranger and the Gunfighter, Shanghai Joe
Gothic - The Stranger’s Gundown, and God said to Cain
Buddy - Good, Bad, & Ugly, Duck You Sucker
Political - Django Kill, Duck You Sucker
Revisionist -
Exploitation - Blindman
Proto (pre fistful) - Gunfight at Red Sands
Civil War - Good, Bad, & Ugly


(korano) #17

Personally, I wouldn’t call all of those actual sub genres. Some are just themes or plot points.

I’d say…

Comedy-Trinity
Zapata-Companeros, The Mercenary
Autumnal (unofficial)-Today We Kill Tomorrow We Die, Shango
Circus (UO)-Boot Hill, Ace High
Twilight-Keoma
Snow-Great Silence
Kung Fu-Shanghai Joe
Gothic-And God Said to Cain
Buddy (Debatable)-A Sky Full of Stars for a Roof
Political-Price of Power, Requiescant
Revisionist (Not widely recognized as a spaghetti sub genre, never the less)-Brothers Blu, maybe Sonny and Jed
Exploitation-Cut Throats Nine
Proto (pre fistful)-Savage Guns
Civil War-GBU


(Silence) #18

Revenge ones are usually made in one way, and Gold/Treasure another. So why not?


(Stanton) #19

Ok, let’s talk a bit about these sub-genres (hope Korano will not nail me again)

What makes a genre a genre? The SW itself was often called a sub-genre of the western, which at least proves that they were somehow different from the usual idea of a western.

But I can’t see that much sub genres of the SW.
At least a genre film should have a few things more in common with other films of the same genre than let’s say a setting like snow. If Snow westerns should be an own genre these films should have a little more which makes them different from other westerns than that they are set in a snowy landscape.

Also Twilight ain’t a genre, these are simply a bunch of films which were made very late in the history of SWs, and I don’t think they are too different from all that was made before. and where they are different (Keoma, 4 of the Apocalypse), they don’t share these differences with others of the twilight westerns.

Same goes for the Pre- Fistful westerns. That’s not a genre, even if these have in their simplicity a similar approach to the western genre, it ain’t different from many later SWS.

There are a few circus westerns, but again they don’t share much than being set partly in a circus (Boot Hill and 2 Guns for a Coward have nothing in common) and Parolini’s Sabata films have some acrobats jumping around, but not even a circus in sight from which they could have been escaped.

The only relevant sub types of SWs are the political ones, of which the Zapatas are again a sub type, and the comedies.

Then there are a few of these East meets West films, maybe they can called a sub-genre, but they are not very important for the genre, and it’s only a handful.
Maybe the heist westerns are a sort of sub genre, as there are quite a lot of them.

There is also at least one musical, there are a few SWs with strong melodramatic elements, a few with a woman in the lead a few of this, and one of that, but always not enough to create a movement.

And terms like autumnal, gothic, exploitation are only describing a few influences on a few westerns, but hardly a genre.

Basically the SW tells 2 stories, and most of the SWs belong to one of these story lines:

  1. The revenge story
  2. The greed for money story, in which the hero’s only interest is to make money (by bounty hunting, treasure searching etc)

But I’m not sure if these 2 types of films can be related to a genre definition. They belong to the genre of the SW, they even contain the key elements of the SW, but are they really a sub genre of the SW?


(korano) #20

My list of sub genres is not strict (obviously). Sure, many may not be sub genres from a technical standpoint. But why let technicality get in the way of making a good old fashioned list? :slight_smile: