Re-Dubbing Spaghetti Westerns?


(Nick) #1

I recently created a short re-dub of the conclusion to Tonino Valerii’s Day of Anger, which can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=419Hpo1yFzk

During the creation of that project, I was contemplating doing a full length re-dub, and now having completed it been I’m seriously planning to create a brand new dub for They Call Him Cemetery (Gli Fumavano Le Colt… Lo Chiamavano Camposanto) as the only English dub of this film is in terrible condition (and it’s one of my favorite films).

This would be in the vein of the Day of Anger project. No re-using sounds from the film, none of that lame stuff. This new dub would be feature brand new polished sound effects, new voice acting, and using the remastered music from the soundtracks.

The question is, would you fella’s be interested in something like that? I’m curious as to what you think. Are there some other films that could use the same treatment?

(Also I’d like to make clear, I am NOT asking for money, this project would simply be a labor of love and time.)


(Asa) #2

I thought it was excellent. Really, excellent. Is there nothing to be said for maybe tackling a movie without a prominent English dub at all, like Death Sentence or Hate is My God?


(Guanto) #3

Apologies in advance. I’m really struggling with this one.

I keep having flashbacks to when Lucas started adding animated clip-art to the original trilogy, or remember that Jesus Fresco debacle a few years back?

Anyway, I knew as soon as I read “No re-using sounds from the film, none of that lame stuff.” I should have stepped away. I knew I would grieve over the loss of even a single db of the quintessential Foley so crucial to the soul of a Spaghetti Western. For example the removal of filmdoms most iconic gunshots was blasphemy to my ears. But it wasn’t until watching your video that I realized how equally important the source music and ADR truly is to the feel of this genre. With all of the glorious imperfections and technical shortcomings of their time (and place) they really end up making these films so cult… so good. Oozing with production character and style… and quirks… but always with that venerable genuineness. Honestly just missing the ambient background hiss and pop that bubbles down around the -40db mark immediately took me out of it. I guess if I want to hear a digitally clean modern western, I’d watch one. Ya know?

And while I am saying that the audio being “dirty” is what in part creates that Spaghetti vibe, I’m also saying that in many cases the actual sound effect itself, regardless of sonic treatment, was just better… or at least cooler. Bootsteps, punches, eating, cork-popping, cylinders turning, hammers cocking and unquestionably that beautiful beautiful BANG!

I cant really get passed my admittedly self imposed feelings of sacrilege here to acknowledge the substantial effort you put into this. I do appreciate that, and can relate personally, even specifically. And let me state my abhorrence is way more about the ideology of this than the execution. But that being said I will mention that there is a lifetime of crafting that goes into getting Foley and ADR to feel “baked in” so there is less of an out-of-body experience for the viewer. Heck, employing spatial techniques for perceived distances alone could be a college major unto itself, without getting into eq, verbs, compressors, mics, rooms and relative volumes of all the components to each other in the mix. But I digress.

In closing, I know this is just for fun by your own admission, so PLEASE take all of this with a grain of salt, as I am very likely completely alone in my convictions, but man this did not set right with me.

In a nutshell, everything you removed/replaced is everything that I love about these films. If someone goes in to remaster The White Album, let alone remix it, I get heart palpitations, but if they decided to record their own guitar part and sing a few harmonies, well https://youtu.be/pjnZO5ZgWE8

For what it’s worth, I am totally down with checking in on your continuing growth with projects (like last.caress suggested) that were never English dubbed, or better yet never filmed/produced/seen by anyone… yet. (aka fully original material).

p.s.

I am not sure if it has any bearing on how my dissertation is received, but I assure you if you wouldn’t have specifically asked for feedback I wouldn’t have shared my thoughts.


(Jonny Powers) #4

Guanto got here before I did, and my sentiments regarding new sound are basically the same as his. Sure, cool, go ahead and make a re-dub if you like, I know there are plenty of film that have either lost or never had an English dub. Would I watch it? Probably not, not even in the case of Cemetery or Death Sentence. I still hold hope that a better dub track exists out there, somewhere! :smile:


(Nick) #5

Thank you so much! Death Sentence is a movie that has been on my watch list for a long time now, and I would love to track a copy down when I have the money. Creating an English track would also be such an exciting experience! The only set back would be that I don’t have the original soundtrack for that film, and not having it means not having an integral part of the film. I only know of one release of that score, and it was on LP. Provided I could locate one, I would love to tackle the project! Hopefully Digitmovies or Beat Records will take the time to re-release the old CAM master tapes in the near future!


(Nick) #6

I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’ve studied these films for years, enjoying identifying voice actors, listening to the wonderfully iconic sound effects that are reused time and time again and the dirty sound quality speckled with pops and hisses, these are all things I enjoy. Seeing classic films enhanced and cleaned up is a very strange experience, and like you said can take you out of the film, much like how the new MGM releases of the Dollar’s Trilogy and Duck You Sucker have taken the audio and changed them, sometimes removing sound effects and “enhancing” the music by adding a duo phonic (false stereo) effect to it (which in all honesty sounds like garbage).

Much like your film, “Shoot In Any Direction and You’ll Hit a Bastard” (I can’t stop gushing over it by the way) I created this as a labor of love. However, instead of copying the medium exactly as you did, I wanted to dump fancy production quality into it. Does the polish and cleanliness it fit the genre? Not really. As you mentioned, yes, the crinkles, and the over the top sound effects in these films are almost as important as the film itself, it’s part of what made these films so iconic in a way.

Let me be clear about one thing, when I mentioned “none of that lame stuff” I did not intend to insult the original sound artists or the films. I have an IMMENSE amount of respect for them, as they were the pioneer’s of their profession and helped bring foley art to the rest of the world. They are a huge influence on why am studying to become an audio engineer. That statement was a poor choice of words honestly.

The only reason I wanted to enhance the audio of these films is because of the immense love I have for them. I know it sounds strange for you, because the age of these films is something that you enjoy, but I wanted to try and give a piece of myself back to them in the only way I know how.

I take your criticism gladly, and am thankful you laid it out. I also appreciate your love for the genre, it’s wonderful that people like you care so much for these films.