Once Upon a Time in the West / C’era una volta il West (Sergio Leone, 1968)

(JonathanCorbett) #381

[quote=“Stanton, post:379, topic:322”]From a German book 2009:

“It is controversial, if this is the from Leone intended version”

Which means that there was probably some discussion in Italy if it is true what the DVD claims. And if so I would really like to read this discussions.[/quote]

For example Alberto Pezzotta - contributor of Nocturno, expert of Hong Kong cinema and since 2008 member of the Selection Committee for Venice Film Festival - in his article on Leone’s Westerns philology “I minuti contati” (CIAK, December 2007) writes:

“With C’era una volta il West we go from bad to worse. The new MHE Dvd runs 160 minutes, equivalent to the “Scorsese” version presented to last Rome Film Festival. (…) Result: a bit accelerated Leone. Why? To adapt the Italian version to the audio restoration done by the Americans on their copy. A painstaking, unnecessary and harmful job. Guard your old CVC Dvd with care.”

(I love you M.E. Kay) #382

This is all so confusing! :-\

(Stanton) #383

Ok, here we have now a pretty detailed description how it could happen what I always have assumed. That the Paramount DVD is not exactly the theatrical version as it was released in Europe. And even worse that it is also not the theatrical version as it was released in the US and the UK. Cause the original English version was identical with the Italian release version.

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0

Which means there was always only one version prepared for the cinema (before the butchering started in several countries), and the different runtimes for this release version (165 min and 168 min) result only from that exit music.

And the question what the hell Scorsese did is now more actual than ever. The first scene wasn’t completely restored, the Rising scene shouldn’t be in and the closing music is still wrong. Looks like a wasted effort.

Question is now still if this 165 min version is the real DC, or the longer 177 min Italian version?

(ENNIOO) #384

Wonder if Scorsese drinks alot these days…

(John Welles) #385

Right, from reading all this, it appears that there are two versions of Once Upon a Time in the West, a 165 minute cut and a 177 minute cut.

The version I have seen is this:

On Amazon, the run time is listed as 175 minutes; is the two missing minutes just because of the conversion from film to video?

(Stanton) #386

The 177 min version was only released in Italy on VHS and DVD. The actual runtime of the DVD is slightly above 170 min cause it is a Pal runtime.

Your version is surely only the 165 min Paramount version.

(ENNIOO) #387

Same running time as the Leone Nut fan edit version, who uses three sources for his version:

Italy CVC 2002 dvd.
U.S Paramount Special Collector’s Edition dvd 2003.
U.K Paramount Special Collector’s Edition dvd 2003.

(Stanton) #388

[quote=“ENNIOO, post:387, topic:322”]Same running time as the Leone Nut fan edit version, who uses three sources for his version:

U.S Paramount Special Collector’s Edition dvd 2003.
U.K Paramount Special Collector’s Edition dvd 2003.[/quote]

But there is no difference between those 2, except that one has a Pal and the other teh NTSC runtime.

And frankly said I prefer the 165 min version to the longish one.

(ENNIOO) #389

Was wondering that one myself.

Does the U.S disc have as english audio options English Dolby Digital 5.1 and English Dolby Digital 2.0 mono ?

Where as the U.K only has the english audio option of English Dolby Digital 5.1 ?

On the fan edit version only a mono english audio track and a mono Italian track are used.

(JonathanCorbett) #390

I’ve read this Leone enthusiast restored Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo Rome Premiere cut (181 minutes) including the uncut Tuco beating scene, and this deserves a big round of applause!

I don’t know why Cineteca di Bologna and Cineteca Nazionale renounced to reconstruct this complete version too.

(ENNIOO) #391

Yes that’s correct. Viewed that version last time around.

(Yodlaf Peterson) #392

Watched the Blu Ray, looks great. Nothing can eclipse this for me now. :wink:

(StefaanD) #393

Well you lucky … ;D

My pre-order from frs.nl is still not shipped, so much for pre-orders. Oh well at least something to drool about and still plenty enough to see.

(John Welles) #394

How long is the blu-ray exactly?

(JonathanCorbett) #395

2:45:24 (Theatrical) + 2:46:01 (Restored)

(Stark) #396

Some more info on the leonenut version for those interested -run time 171min PAL

http://fanedit.org/341/

(John Welles) #397

Thanks. Does that mean that there is 37 seconds of “new” material?

(Stanton) #398

No, only 19 sec. The rest is some text about the restoration.

The 19 sec contain a few more shots of the first scene, and then very strangely the complete Rising scene taken from the Italian alternative version.
Ohh, and there is one sec more in the second scene, in which the Paramount version cuts a little bit too early. Which looks strange, but only if you notice it. And most people won’t notice if they don’t know.

Scorsese wanted to restore the Italian cut, but hasn’t done it.

Again:

  1. The first scene should be 70 sec longer, of which Scorsese restored only a few.
  1. The Rising should be completely out. But Marty stretched it …

(new Scorsese shots are at 0:48 seconds)

  1. Scorsese did not even fixed the wrong closing music in which the piece which is called Finale is completely played out, and not cut and substituted by the Cheyenne theme (which doesn’t make any sense at all).

The Youtube clips were taken from the uncut German version, which show you how it should be.

(JonathanCorbett) #399

quote=“Stanton, post:398, topic:322” very strangely the complete Rising scene taken from the Italian alternative version.
(…)
The Rising should be completely out. But Marty stretched it …[/quote]

Considering that we are in the field of personal tastes, having another look at this sequence I find that the cut including the Rising - almost certainly the version Leone liked best - is less abrupt and definitely preferable, even thanks to this slow, atmospheric part (I like the squeaking that introduces Harmonica waking up a lot).

(John Welles) #400

Thanks guys for all the information. There seems to be many more versions available than I previously imagined. Were any of the butchered versions that were released in cinemas like the two hour cut, put out on VHS?