Yes if you are lucky that type of clue or evidence could appear.
There are at least two examples from SWs in the late 1960´s where they have used “matte” to fake either background mountains or a certain building/palace in the mountains. , Matte (filmmaking) - Wikipedia
Therefore I now more than before think there is a decent or rather high probability of the backdrop/background hills near ESPERANZA to be a fake image, if that movie still (posted above before) from Navajo Joe also was a fake.
In that case the configuration of the telegraph poles (4 vertical pairs) becomes even more important.
I have as stated before seen similar configuration on photos from the Murcia railway station and Gandia, Alicante and between Almendricos and Àguilas on video (and google street view surprisingly), but also elsewhere in Spain and even in Galicia. But they are rather rare on photos.
So in that case, the telegraph poles configuration, the double railway tracks which might be along a consistent double track and the “rocky edge” at the opposite site of the station become much more relevant than the background/backdrop.
But there is a parked railway wagon at Esperanza indicating a real station or apeadero so the double track requisite might not have to be applicable.
And this means that that the Murcia-Alicante area might still be a possible candidate not to be ruled out, regardless of background/backdrop. You should look for an appropriate track configuration and the “rocky edge” and maybe with tracks more likely coming from south/south-west to north/northeast direction to fit the pattern of shadows during the shooting of the movie that I have written about before.
I can say with 100% confidence , there is no matte painting or ‘foreground miniature’ work in ‘Navajo Joe’ … think about it? This process is either used to enhance a location which is impossible to build or to cover up something unwanted in the frame, which is a very expensive and time consumming process … plus, it’s easy to identify when you know what you’re looking for, … it can be easily spotted.
Hello, I am following this thread with interest as a fan of railways and movie locations. My English is not very good. I have traced documentation on stations with two tracks, a ground floor building, a curved entrance, and a mountainous landscape in the background. There are not many coincidences considering the locations indicated in the film, but … I have found one that meets the conditions. I pass aerial image and updated capture so that you can give me your opinion
Your English is very good…I will have a look on my computer this evening…I have my mobile phone with me now but cannot see clearly the images…What ever the outcome thank you for your interest and help…I will contact you later…Thank you
If it as normally oriented i.e.with north in upwards direction that is OK according to my theory about the shadows directions in the movie…
The single track on the lower photo might be a problem, but not necessarily, since the aerial photo from 1956 seems to show double track a sufficent distance.
Don’t you want to reveal where it is located ? I am curious !
The second photo looks interesting regarding the nature and topography, but one would want closer views and in more directions.
Hi Picudo…I,m back at the ranch now lol… I started looking for ESPERANZA STATION many years ago and then asked for help via threads on Web sites… To date myself and my Amigos have not found the mystery where Burt Reynolds came into station Esperanza… I just want a conclusion to the mystery and not in it to take credit for solving …If you have found it then you will be credited …To date the image looking down needs further clarification,as does the single line photo…All i can say Picudo is reveal where it i is PORFAVOR…I live approx 20 minutes from Guadix station and will be prepared to travel if within 100 kilometer radius for you if you want… Let us know your intention please…Gracias Pedro
I think I have found something hot, but I have many doubts.
Each controls its subject, in the absence of primary sources, such as a renfe list in process.
I have focused on finding a station with two tracks, a building on the ground floor, a curve to the left, a building in front of the platform and a level crossing just before the station, in addition to a slightly mountainous background. With the 1956 air flight I have contrasted it.
Very complex task, but one that has allowed me to make virtual trips selecting lines from old private companies whose station architecture was cheap and very sober.
To this must be added the number of stations that no longer exist today and whose buildings have been demolished.
The north orientation criterion does not meet it, the west does.
I do not reveal the place since it is a first hypothesis, which I am trying to combine with the fact of why choose that place about 120 kms from Madrid, but not near Torremocha and Uceda.
I have read the whole thread here and have seen the forums where you have asked. It is a task that I have also been carrying out for a long time and now I have taken up again because I have had access to historical information on the railroad in the province of Granada. I would love for Esperanza to be in Granada, but I have lost “Esperanza”. I have entered the forum when I have found a possible location, at the moment you are the authorities on this issue.
I am not sure the photo shows those “Piñar mountains”, but they could be those that are shown in the sequence before Navajo Joe reaches the station, andthat somewhat remind of the "Piñar mountains but not as “rocky”. Those are shown just seconds before in the movie when he drives the locomotive.
Please keep up the good work Amigo… We must continue the search as a team… We do know some scenes were filmed South of Madrid. Saludos
. What area in Spain do you live or dare i say it are you Italian… cheers
enhorabuena … Fantástico. Tú eres el héroe. Te llevas la medalla de oro. La verdad es que comencé la búsqueda de ESPERANZA hace 10 años. Viviendo y trabajando cerca de la estación de Guadix la búsqueda comenzó desde allí … Hablé con trabajadores ferroviarios, Caminé por la antigua línea de ferrocarril, etc., etc. Luego, con la ayuda de las asociaciones de ferrocarriles, continué hacia el exterior desde las estaciones de Freila / Zujar. Cuando me recupere de la cirugía en el futuro, debo ir al sitio de ESPERANZA. Será el final de una peregrinación.
pedro_james wanted this message to be posted here :
" También debemos agradecer a Runner y otros que han pasado muchas horas, días y días buscando ESPERANZA … PICUDO mi dirección de correo electrónico es phjfreila @ hotmail.co.uk … por favor envíeme un correo electrónico con el lugar donde vive en Granada … Lo haremos reúnase un día para tomar una copa bien merecida … saludos Pedro.
Buenas noches, no hay héroes. He leído tus intentos de localizar Esperanza desde el inicio, pero llevo muchos temas ferroviarios en mi tiempo libre, sobre todo de Granada. Y al paso de los años he visto que el tema seguía estancado por lo que decidí dedicar mis conocimientos a buscar luz en el asunto. He tenido la suerte de encontrar resultados en base a varios criterios y la posibilidad de disponer de fotografía aérea histórica para comparar instalaciones. Lo heróico en todo caso, es mantener viva la búsqueda durante tantos años.
Estamos muy cerca de resolver el misterio, ya casi lo tocamos con los dedos.
Un saludo Pedro_James y Runner
Good night, there are no heroes. I have read your attempts to locate Esperanza from the beginning, but I carry a lot of railway issues in my spare time, especially from Granada. And over the years I have seen that the subject was still stagnant so I decided to dedicate my knowledge to seek light on the matter. I have been fortunate to find results based on several criteria and the possibility of having historical aerial photography to compare facilities. The heroic thing in any case, is to keep the search alive for so many years.
We are very close to solving the mystery, we almost touched it with our fingers.
Greetings Pedro_James and Runner
En un primer momento, propuse como posible ubicación Vellisca (Cuenca), estación de la localidad del mismo nombre en la línea ferroviaria de Aranjuez a Cuenca. La tipología de estación coincidía pero el buen ojo observador de @runner planteaba “no coincidencias” en el paisaje a 360º . Otros contactos que establecí en la zona daban opiniones diversas y poco claras. Además, los mayores del pueblo no recordaban un rodaje en aquella estación.
He vuelto a repasar mensajes, recomendaciones y todo lo que había leído sobre esto y he vuelto a pasar por lugares ya descartados, pero cruzando información antigua de estaciones. Y ahora el lugar de estación Esperanza ha sido encontrado:
Se trata de la antigua estación de Ontígola (Toledo) en la misma línea Aranjuez-Cuenca, entre las poblaciones de Aranjuez y Ocaña. Las coincidencias y similitudes de paisaje son muy muy buenas y se necesitan imágenes actualizadas del lugar para compararlo con los fotogramas de la película.
La estación se encuentra completamente demolida y no queda resto alguno, salvo la cimentación del edificio y del muelle de mercancías.
Iremos añadiendo evidencias sobre la localización. Un saludo
First, I proposed as a possible location Vellisca (Cuenca), a station in the town of the same name on the Aranjuez-Cuenca railway line. The type of station coincided but the good observing eye of @runner raised “no coincidences” in the 360º landscape. Other contacts I made in the area gave mixed and unclear opinions. In addition, the elders of the town did not remember a filming in that station.
I have gone back to review messages, recommendations and everything I had read about this and I have gone through places already discarded, but crossing old information about stations. And now the place of Esperanza station has been found:
This is the old Ontígola station (Toledo) on the same Aranjuez-Cuenca line, between the towns of Aranjuez and Ocaña. The landscape matches and similarities are very very good and up-to-date images of the place are needed to compare with the film frames.
The station is completely demolished and there is nothing left, except for the foundation of the building and the freight dock.
We will be adding evidence about the location. Greetings
The ESPERANZA mystery has finally been solved by @Picudo, which is very very satisfying !
So there actually was really no real mystery, just a very difficult location to find.
The last few years I had been routinely “google maps travelling” along that track Aranjuez - Cuenca as well at least twice but obviously didn’t find this short part of the railway interesting enough to look closer.
Similar locations had also been dismissed not appearing enough promising regarding some details. But I did check more thorougly many many tenths or even hundred of other more or less interesting candidates mainly in the southern half of Spain and including the Madrid province.
There seems to be nearly no old photographs of the antique Ontigola station on the internet. Therefore it is not spotted while looking at the many many thousands of railway photographs in several groups of Facebook.
The station was replaced in 1973 by a more central station in the Ontigola pueblo. I guess the wooden surface of the ESPERANZA station building in Navajo Joe was added at the outside of the original station building thus masking the typical Spanish architectural style.
I haven’t yet seen the rather special ESPERANZA telegraph poles with configuration 4 vertical pairs of insulators at photographs near other stations along the Arranjuez - Cuenca line.
