Mud and Blood Trilogy

Town Hall
21

[quote=“LankyFellow, post:20, topic:1466”]When Leone made ‘Per un pugno di dollari’,he surely don’t look ahead for a trilogy,thats no question for every fan.
But i think,when he did ‘Buono,brutto,cattivo’ and look back,these three movies belong together in his mind.
Thats the difference to Corbucci,who never thought about a context of ‘Django’,‘Silenzio’ and ‘Specialisti’[/quote]

Right. I wrote this on GBU a while ago ( http://fistfulofpasta.com/index.php?go=reviews/gtbtuss ):

<<There’s one small element of Eastwood’s character, that has escaped most people who have written about the movie: he picks up the famous poncho from the side of the dying soldier, wearing the distinctive garment only in the film’s finale. The two other parts of the trilogy are both set after the Civil War, and when Blondie rides out of this movie, he is on his way to A Fistful of Dollars. Like this the trilogy can start all over again, ad infinitum. It leaves us with the difficulty that No Name would be a wealthy man at the beginning of Fistful, which makes it unlikely he would ever want to mess with the Rojos and the Baxters, but it’s an elegant narrative device. I like it.>>

Originally, A Fistful of Dollars would have a similar scene, in the beginning : Eastwood would pick up a poncho at the side of a dead Mexican. This would be the explanation for the garment as well as Eastwood’s quasi-mystic personality: a nameless, adventurous, opportunist drifter, working on both sides of the border. The scene was not filmed for commercial as well as esthetic reasons (it would have given the movie a slow start), but ‘restored’ at the end of GBU. I think it was a joke from Leone’s part, no more, but like I said it’s a great joke and I like it a lot.

The link between the three movies of the Dollar trilogy, is of course Eastwood the actor, while the poncho is the garment linking the three characters Eastwood impersonates in the three different films. So it’s a very loose trilogy, and it’s more interesting and illuminating to illustrate the differences between the three movies than the similarities. Ferroni’s trilogy is also very loose: the link is Gemma, playing three different characters named Gary. But only One Silver Dollar and Fort Yuma Gold are set in the aftermath of the Civil War, Wanted is a completely different film, with a completely different theme and setting.

To me Django, Il Grande Silenzio and Gli Specialisti are three different films too; there are similarities, yes, but they’re not really essential. There’s the christian symbomism with the crushed hands, the racism theme, the handicapped hero, the outsider theme, the down-beat ending etc; but those elements are not treated similarly in all three films, and some elements also pop up in other movies (the racism/outsider theme in Navajo Joe, the handicapped hero in Minnesota Clay, the down-beat ending in Companeros etc.).

22

Thats very detailed and interesting,Scherps.
I’m quite sure,that Leone exactly know what he did,a great joke like you said.
That the end of Good,bad,ugly could be the start of Fistful of dollars is brilliant,so the story from the man with the Poncho goes around and around.
If you want so,it never ends

23

When I first saw GBU I thought:
Oh it’s the war that created the Eastwood persona. He got his poncho from the dying soldier, but before he got the rest of his usual outfit after he was “released” from the prison camp.

24

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:21, topic:1466”]Right. I wrote this on GBU a while ago ( http://fistfulofpasta.com/index.php?go=reviews/gtbtuss ):

<<There’s one small element of Eastwood’s character, that has escaped most people who have written about the movie: he picks up the famous poncho from the side of the dying soldier, wearing the distinctive garment only in the film’s finale. The two other parts of the trilogy are both set after the Civil War, and when Blondie rides out of this movie, he is on his way to A Fistful of Dollars. Like this the trilogy can start all over again, ad infinitum. It leaves us with the difficulty that No Name would be a wealthy man at the beginning of Fistful, which makes it unlikely he would ever want to mess with the Rojos and the Baxters, but it’s an elegant narrative device. I like it.>>

Originally, A Fistful of Dollars would have a similar scene, in the beginning : Eastwood would pick up a poncho at the side of a dead Mexican. This would be the explanation for the garment as well as Eastwood’s quasi-mystic personality: a nameless, adventurous, opportunist drifter, working on both sides of the border. The scene was not filmed for commercial as well as esthetic reasons (it would have given the movie a slow start), but ‘restored’ at the end of GBU. I think it was a joke from Leone’s part, no more, but like I said it’s a great joke and I like it a lot.

The link between the three movies of the Dollar trilogy, is of course Eastwood the actor, while the poncho is the garment linking the three characters Eastwood impersonates in the three different films. So it’s a very loose trilogy, and it’s more interesting and illuminating to illustrate the differences between the three movies than the similarities. Ferroni’s trilogy is also very loose: the link is Gemma, playing three different characters named Gary. But only One Silver Dollar and Fort Yuma Gold are set in the aftermath of the Civil War, Wanted is a completely different film, with a completely different theme and setting.

To me Django, Il Grande Silenzio and Gli Specialisti are three different films too; there are similarities, yes, but they’re not really essential. There’s the christian symbomism with the crushed hands, the racism theme, the handicapped hero, the outsider theme, the down-beat ending etc; but those elements are not treated similarly in all three films, and some elements also pop up in other movies (the racism/outsider theme in Navajo Joe, the handicapped hero in Minnesota Clay, the down-beat ending in Companeros etc.).[/quote]Howard Hughes labels it a trilogy and him being an afficienado helps me believe it as a trilogy. But Scherp is soething of an afficienado too but I still believe.

The ending to Companeros does confuse me. Is it really downbeat? Do they all die?

25

Not for me. I view it as an optimistic end. Scherp does not.

We had talked about this before, two or three times.

26

Okay, everybody has the right to believe something however stanton

Stupid, for instance, believes the end of Compañeros is optimistic !
Now com’ on, the rear end of his avatar was optimistic, but the end of Compañeros ?

But I know, people need something to believe in

Serious now:
Compañeros - Corbucci doesn’t show us ‘the end’, so it’ll always be only speculation what happened after the Pinguin goes back to his friends. Interesting question: does it make sense to talk about things that are NOT SHOWN in the movie? is there any movie outside the movie?

The trilogy - of course you have the right to distinguish a trilogy where others don’t, but my problem is that it’s always possible to select some similarities between several films of a director; most directors have ‘recurrent themes’ (I mentioned a few of Corbucci’s recurrent themes in my previous post), and it all becomes a bit arbitrary if we start looking for links to create virtual trilogies.

27

Well, if you think of the movie as a movie, just a movie, then no, there is nothing outside of the runtime. But if you think of it more than just a movie, yes, there is something beyond the movie.

But I believe movies can be different movies but still be something of a trilogy. For instance, the makers of the movie Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz are making another movie that they say will complete a trilogy. This is the filmakers talking. They are calling it the Blood and Ice Cream trilogy because they are all bloody and have the same brand of Ice cream. Different movies, one trilogy according to the filmakers. I think some of you guys may be either reading into it too much, or genuienly believe they are not similar.

28

We shouldn’t dwell too much on this Mud & Blood term.

When I read it first I thought: Why not?
It seemed to fit somehow, even if from a modern point of view there isn’t much blood in them and only mud in Django. But it describes a feeling very well I have when I’m watching these films. Several more of Corbucci’s early westerns have this B&M feeling, but they are not as disturbing and not as good as these 3. They have a inner connection for me, which sets them apart from other Corbucci westerns, and this connection is described with B&M pretty good.

So the term works for me in an emotional way, but as I said, I won’t use it too much. It will stay in my mind nevertheless.

29

I never had a problem with the ‘Mud & Blood’ term, but with the idea of a ‘trilogy’, and those problems won’t keep me awake at night, I just think this whole trilogy thing doesn’t make much sense, that’s all. Others may have another opinion about this, but for that reason I think those kind of texts (and discussions) belong in the forum, not in the database.

30

I wrote the article for the databse because its legitamacy was in question. I wrote it as one point of view on the subject. I did discuss its connections in the article which pointed out that it is not considered by all to be a trilogy. And why not put it on the database. It doesn’t do any harm and it is one of very few contributions to our dying articles section. If you want to, just think of it as a review of three films I watched in a row. I didn’t say in the article thatthis is a hands down trilogy, just covering the possibility.

31

First of all: it was not a personal attack or anything of the kind
I just think the forum is a better place for discussion(s) than the database

Frankly, I simply don’t see this point
Why not convincing people that it does belong in the database before loading it up ?

Again: it’s not personal, it just doesn’t make sense to me

32

Sorry if it sounded like one. Meant no offense but now see I was a little anctious. Lets agree to disagree. Because this wont go anywhere otherwise I think.

33

Your article is not bad korano, but it doesn’t offer anything we didn’t already know about these films, and maybe you should have emphasised it more that it’s only in your opinion they are a trilogy?

34

@ korano: Enjoyed your article. I liked your view on The Specialist. In Il Mercenario Corbucci (IMO his best Movie!) seems to support the left movement of the 60’s. Then in the Specialist not and he made fun about it in Companeros. I’ve never seen Sonny & Jed and “What I’m doing in the middle of the Revolution”. So I cannot say anything about them but I think “What I’m doing …” is also more a Comedy about the Revolution. His last western was the childish comedy The White, the Yellow and the Black.

I’m also not quite sure if these three movies are a trilogy. Why is not Django, Navajo Joe and The Great Silence a Trilogy?
Django and The great Silence have more in common as The Specialists. Isn’t Django just Corbucci’s Version of Fistful of Dollars and The Great Silence his unique answer to For a Few Dollars more? The bulletproofed Shirt of The Specialist reminds somehow on Fistful of Dollars.
:slight_smile:

35

???

36

How did I confused you?

37

I’m just tired I guess. Just woke up. You make many good points.

38

Sorry Korano maybe my thoughts were a bit chaotic! :slight_smile:
Here are some more:
In all three Movie the main character is wounded at the final duel. Django has two broken hands, Silence has a burned hand and Johnny Halliday is also injured. All three duels have different results.
All three main characters are different. IMO Django is more like a Anti-Hero and not very trustworthy, Silence is only killing for Money, Johnny Halliday’s SW Hero is closer to the US Western Heroes. Like Shane he is wounded at the end but is riding out of the town.

The preachy message of “The Specialist” seems to be “Don’t trust the Hippies”. In The Great Silence “Don’t trust the Laws” and in Django “Don’t trust anybody”.
:wink:

39

Thank you Paco. Once I have enough, I could add these thoughts to the article. If you have anymore, send em’!

For now, I will focus on my articles and give reviews a break. As I’ve said, I’m working on one for the comedies. Yeah Yeah. I know how much we all love these Comedy Westerns but for the visiters of this site who wish to know all about Spaghettis, I intend to make it better. We have Scherp and his works of art, BL and his mini reviews, Phil with his own unique perspectives, and little o’ll me.

Anywho: It is possible that I wrote the article first to accelerate the discussion in the forum. I’m not quite sure.

40

Never heard this, I love the trilogy name! Have not seen Specialist yet so I will get back to this. Ive always liked God Forgives trilogy (with ace high and boot hill). What about other loose trilogies?.. Im we can draw parallel with 3 Steffen films , Garko films or robert woods also?..