If You Meet Sartana, Pray for Your Death / Se incontri Sartana, prega per la tua morte (Gianfranco Parolini, 1968)


(Reverend Danite) #21

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:19, topic:188”]the first Sartana-as-we-know-him started the process of desintegration that lead to the Trinities, the Twilight spaghetties and the slow death somewhere in the late 70’s.

… and ended some six years later with COMPAñEROS (the last truly great SW)[/quote]

And Keoma (1975); and A Man Called Blade (1977) aren’t great spaghetti westerns?!
Pistols at dawn Dear Chap!
:wink:


(Søren) #22

You forgot California, Reverend… Even better than those two.


(Reverend Danite) #23

Indeed, you speak the truth Brother AvatarDK. I agree entirely - one of my top 10. A common factor must be the mud. The spirit of Django permeates these latter-day beauties.


(scherpschutter) #24

@ Avatar @ Reverend

I don’t hate or even dislike California, Keoma or Mannaja, nor other twilight spaghetti’s like The Grand Duel or Dead Men Ride, I just don’t think they’re truly great. In my opinion they are all pretty derivative and just don’t add anything special to the genre, unless you consider the use of a blade to be an innovative idea.
But that is, of course, a personal opinion, I invite you to disagree …

By the way, I don’t think Duck You Sucker is great either.

And I hate Four of the Apocalypse …


(Reverend Danite) #25

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:24, topic:188”]@ Avatar @ Reverend

I just don’t think they’re truly great. In my opinion they are all pretty derivative and just don’t add anything special to the genre … of course, a personal opinion, I invite you to disagree …

And I hate Four of the Apocalypse …[/quote]
I’ve quoted my gran’pappy before when he told me "If we all liked the same things in this world, my boy … everybody would be trying to shag yer granny"
It would be a strange place indeed. I suppose it depends on whether or not “great” has to equate with “innovative”. And there’s always the interpretation that one man’s derivitive may be another man’s homage. In my opinion, which is only different, and in no way more valid than yours, (‘scept I have God on my side!) - these three films are a great addition to the genre which has produced a fair amount of dross. (I usually enjoy watching the dross all the same tho’). I agree that they may not be “special” in a truely innovative sense - altho’ it could be argued, particularly in regards to California and Keoma, some ‘big’ issues, a questioning of the importance of duty as it relates to the human condition, to observations about racially based hatred, (amongst other things) are freshly and intelligently tackled.
But this metaphysical slant is not necessarily what makes them truely great in my eyes (altho’ it must, at least subliminally for me, add to their greatness).
The real reason I think they’re great is because despite all the mud, the gloom and the pathetic waste of human life I leave these films a better person than I went in. Again, not in any deep and meaningful way - I got out of it what I expected - great entertainment! And that’s enough for me sometimes. Bridget Bardot had a great body - ‘innovative’ jus’ dont have to come in to it sometimes.
Anyway amigo, it’s still pistols (one damned day) at dawn! Whad’ya mean … you hate 4 of the Apocalypse? :wink:


(Cian) #26

So do I.


(scherpschutter) #27

FOUR is based on two different novels of American writer Bret Harte, and it shows: it falls apart into two different halves; the first half, with the town’s people butchering the criminals, is an acceptable Fulci horror show, though far from memorable, truely great, innovative or whatever. It’s the second half I really hate. Oddly enough, it reminds me of the sixties, of the kind of hopi-hippie movies they made in those days, films in which everybody seemed high, stoned or loaded. Carlos Castaneda meets Spaghetti, something like that. And those musical interludes!
Just name place and date, dude!

KEOMA is obviously a different story. It could indeed be argued that duty, racial hatred etc. are intelligently tackled. Moreover the flashbacks in which Nero walks through his own past are beautiful (and yes, probably innovative, can’t remember any other spag with this kind of flashbacks). But still … I just didn’t like the attempts to add a mythical/mystical/religious dimension to the story and the over-reliance on Peckinpah-like slow motion got on my nerves after a while.

I saw California some 5 or 6 years ago and it was a rotten, fullscreen VHS, so that might have influenced my judgement.

In general I do agree with you that a film doesn’t have be innovative or truely great … often ‘perfectly entertaining’ or ‘fun to watch’ is more than enough, but I was talking about truely great spaghetti westerns, and I happen to think that the 10-20 best were made in that period '64 - '70 (I put up my favs list tonight).


(Silvanito) #28

Her name is Brigitte not Bridget :slight_smile:


(Col. Douglas Mortimer) #29

I love both Sartana and Sabata, but I fully understand why people may hate these movies. The same reasons why they hate it are probably the same reasons why like it!

Definitely Sartana is not a Leone classic, but it doesn’t try to be. Its not a great classic movie but its fun as hell and does the best job with what limitations it has, especially considering the rediculously low budget of these movies.

I can watch the Sartana movies over and over again because they are so fun to watch. I cannot do the same for a “classic” SW such as OUTITW. That doesn’t mean I think Sartana is better than OUTITW, it just means that for pure entertainment value, when i just want to sit down and have a good time, I’ll pop in a Sartana DVD.


(Blacksheepboy) #30

Well, I wouldn’t say I hate it, but I must admit: it’s loose.
It lacks consistence, direction.

At the end, I was left with “Hmm, so what…?”


(Blacksheepboy) #31

Is it, really? I wonder…
I found Sabata a whack, hated Return of Sabata, but never watched Yul Brynner’s Adiós Sabata…

I’ve heard Bruno Nicolai’s theme and liked it very much, makes me wonder about the movie.


(Silvanito) #32

You should definitely give Adios Sabata a chance, it’s a really fun spaghetti western with great music by Bruno Nicolai, and Yul Brynner, Dean Reed and Pedro Sanchez make a good cast!


(ENNIOO) #33

I like Adios Sabata the best; decent budget, excellent music (one of the composers best) and Yul Brynner is a joy to watch as he is so laid back.


(Blacksheepboy) #34

Sounds nice to me then.
Well, I think I’ll give it a chance and download it.
(IF I find it in english! I can only find movies in italian lately… and my italian is awful…)


(Stanton) #35

If you don’t like Parolini’s other SWs, you will have some problems with Adios Sabata too.


(Stanton) #36

Blindman and My Name Is Nobody are two great SWs beyond 1970.
And Nobody is with it’s combination of billantly made scenes in Leone style, twilight western motives a la Peckinpah and Trinity comedy elements a fitting end point for the genre. (And of course because of Leone’s involvement)

And the SWs after Nobody … well I like Four of the Apocalypse and Keoma despite their varied styles, but most if not all of the others are boring, tiredsome movies with tired heroes. California most of all. And Mannaja is simply a lousy western.

And Companeros is also not an innovative film, nothing new in it, but often very well made. But you are right, Blacksheepboy, not much new in the genre after 1970.


(Blacksheepboy) #37

[quote=“stanton, post:36, topic:188”]Blindman and My Name Is Nobody are two great SWs beyond 1970.
And Nobody is with it’s combination of billantly made scenes in Leone style, twilight western motives a la Peckinpah and Trinity comedy elements a fitting end point for the genre. (And of course because of Leone’s involvement)

And the SWs after Nobody … well I like Four of the Apocalypse and Keoma despite their varied styles, but most if not all of the others are boring, tiredsome movies with tired heroes. California most of all. And Mannaja is simply a lousy western.

And Companeros is also not an innovative film, nothing new in it, but often very well made. But you are right, Blacksheepboy, not much new in the genre after 1970.[/quote]

The SW in the 1970’s is a closing genre.
Nothing new in terms of style or storytelling, but quite a few different addings, like Keoma’s score pointing out aspects of the plot and Mannaja’s blade as his trademark weapon.

Also, Trinity came as a first-class comedy-western, not minding much about the seriousness anymore (which existed even in the most comical films, like The Mercenary and Companeros), and My Name is Nobody was the ultimate (and successful) mix between the serious and the comical.

Other than these few exemples, I’d say the genre was dead and buried.
Unfortunately.


(Blacksheepboy) #38

Oh and I forgot to mention, I think Blindman is great too.
It could easily pass as a 1960’s SW.

Quite interesting in terms of character motivation, and very well done.
:smiley:


(Reverend Danite) #39

I keep forgetting that I am a man of God (dude?!!), and therefore I shall be gracious enough to just forgive you your sins instead. :wink:

It was worth showing my ignorance to see that magnificent picture … thanks. :-*


(scherpschutter) #40

Sorry for the dude-thing. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Pray for me.