The Italian censorship site records the submission at 3040 meters which translates to 144m long. This backs up statements by Sollima that the original cut was about 140m. This is over 30m longer than the longest available Blu Ray/DVD version of 112m.
There are several potential obvious missing scenes as well as Beauâs escape from jail. especially in the second half. For example, the Jose Torres character is shot in the bank robbery but appears to mount a horse and start to ride off - but heâs never seen again. I also suspect there are exposition scenes missing at the beginning - the transition from the stagecoach crashing, to Brad/Beau at the river to Brad/Beau at the shack and afterwards to Beau recovered is all quite abrupt. The sequence at the plantation seemed short given this was all a new set etc. I also wondered if the train robbery was much longer originally - it must have been expensive to use the train for such a short sequence.
I also thought, contrary to Howard Hughes, that this was set post Civil War not during the Civil War. This is based on Belleâs comment to Brad that servants/slaves are basically the same so emancipation didnât matter.
The UK theatrical version was cut to 102m with both distributor and censor cuts to get an A rating so that children could see it if accompanied by an adult. These are the censor cuts which were probably 1m-2m.
DR3 - Remove the whole of Fletcherâs attack on Maria. Reduce to a minimum the sounds and shots of a man beating Maria. Reduce to a minimum the fight between this man and Fletcher; and remove all shots of the latter beating his opponentâs head against a rock. DR5 - Reduce to a minimum the incident in which Wallace is beaten up and shot, including shots in which he is only tied up.
These scenes were back in for the UK 90m Pal video/DVD releases so that was a different print source to the UK theatrical version which I suspect was the 112m one originally before distributor cuts.
Iâd have to disagree that this is a âtime saverâ edit ⌠Beau is about to shoot and kill Brad, but passes out ⌠and we are all transported to the new location, which is explained by Prof Brad ⌠itâs a very lovely transition and I believe this is the original cut, otherwise why have Brad explain that he moved them from the crash but became lost.
I was trying to work out where 30m has come from. Normally, you cut from the beginning of the movie. Looking at some of the editing where it gets very tight:
Williams and Taylor - just disappear from movie after that gunfight. Rizzo is billed 5th i think so would have expected more
The train sequence. Lots of dressed up extras and a train for about a minute of screen time (although presumably the same extras who were in the earlier brief train scene) and a robbery that is not shown. Surely this would have been longer.
Iâd say there was definitely more of Beau in or escaping from prison. Very abrupt cut when he looks around in the jail cell
I still think something is missing re: Jose Torresâ character. He escapes from town but doesnât go with Brad and Maria at Puerto so where has he gone? Not sure of the point of scene in which he is brought in dead afterwards unless there was something missing before that.
Linda Verasâ character just appears out of nowhere - isnât even named as far as I can tell. The first time I saw this I thought she was the Lydia Alfonsi character reappearing as I had forgotten what she looked like (but her character is left at the plantation and never seen again).
when Shawnâs men kill the fleeing people on foot, sequence cuts away too quickly in mid shot. I assume this was longer originally.
abrupt edit just before final shot of Beau riding off and âFineâ. Probably more shots originally.
Although I donât think the massacre at Puerto was actually filmed, I thought it was very clumsy writing to have all of that exposition delivered by the dying Rusty who conveniently has been left alive by the vigilantes - who have killed everyone else - for the express purpose of telling Beau what has happened. Hammer producer Tony Hinds used to call this kind of scene âsticky B movieâ writing.
You make some good points, but alas itâs all conjecture for all of us, unless there are some âFACE TO FACEâ survivors to tell us about missing or deleted scenes - and actors donât really invest in remembering specifics about a project unless they had some big career making scene end up on the cutting room floor.
I think it was rumoured that Linda Veras was Sollimaâs girlfriend, so perhaps she was an afterthought regarding the script, as her role isnât very important - One thing that has bothered me over the years was Nicoletta Machiavelli is credited and no where to be seen ⌠So, who knows what that was all about, some love interest for Beauregard Bennett perhaps ?
Itâs an interesting topic ⌠but maybe the cuts were for the best, as we are left, in the longer version with one of the most fascinating films of the genre.
Where is she credited? Not on the Italian print. Not on the IMDB either. On Wikipedia UK only but she is not given a role and they often make errors. Not on Wikipedia Italy. She was only in De Laurentis movies I thought as she was under contract to him. I donât think there is any evidence she was in it,
My comments on the previous post were conjecture I admit.
Canât remember where I read that, but it was a thing for definite - Looked out for her in crowd scenes many times ⌠Perhaps IMDB or Wikipedia have been updated since?
Edit: Yep ⌠thereâs still loads of references to her as a cast member on line.
No there isnât any evidence that she appeared in the film, which is the same amount of evidence you have for the possible scenes youâve suggested !!!
Ha ha - Found it! The source of this is probably Thomas Weisserâs hugely inaccurate tome. He has her in the cast list but not Lydia Alfonsi or Linda Versi. He probably confused her with one of them.
In his performers biographies at the back he also puts Face to Face against her, Kevin Grant doesnât.
He also has âTed Carterâ in his cast list which is Nelloâs alias (Red normally) although Nello is credited under his own name in this.
The question is - where has this come from - or is it just another one of Weisserâs prolific errors.
I mentioned Nicoletta, because if thereâs 30 minutes more of the movie, as you said earlier, perhaps thatâs where she appeared and the rumour originated - I know sheâs not in the release version, that was never in question.
The credits for âThe Shiningâ were never altered, when Anne Jacksonâs (Mrs Tuco) scene with âDannyâ at the beginning of the film was cut for the inferior general release version. Sheâs listed 8th in the end credits, but never seen.
Maybe thereâs a whole new thread here ⌠credited actors who arenât in the final film - âThe Deserterâ (1970) is a good example, Lucio Rosato, best known for playing Aldo Sambrellâs younger half brother in âNavajo Joeâ, is also MIA along with a few other SW regulars
In regard to the rumoured cut scenes: itâs somewhat curious thereâs no surviving stills, if the cuts were that extensive. Similar Grimaldi productions - âFor a Few Dollars Moreâ, âThe Big Gundownâ etc - evidence of discarded scenes exist, at least in stills.
Whatâs not explained in the exposition is how Beauregard breaks out of jail. Maybe the walls were made of the same âstraw and dried shitâ as the jail in âThe Big Gundownâ. I donât know why Howard Hughes would assume itâs set during the Civil War. As mentioned earlier, the dialogue from Belle de Winton seems to suggest otherwise: âAll right, servant, if you prefer. One word doesnât change anything. Just as your Monsieur Lincoln hasnât changed anything. Or whatever he was called.â But movies tend to play fast and loose with history anyway.
Just for context hereâs what Howard Hughes wrote in the booklet for the âFaccia a facciaâ Eureka DVD (2011) 111mins (107mins PAL).
Unlike many Italian westerns, which involve fictitious western characters in a mythical West, Sollima created a sense of historical context. âFaccia a facciaâ takes place during the Civil War, around the time of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1863 - slaves still toil on Max de Wintonâs Confederate estate.
Sollima was highly influenced by the stately pacing and mise-en-scène of Japanese cinema and his original cut of the film was 150 minutes long. The Italian distributor PEA wasnât interested in a two-and-a-half hour movie and cut the film to 107 minutes [PAL].
Donati is still alive isnât he? Heâs probably the only person left alive who might know what else was in the original script. Sadly every interview Iâve read of his seems to focus on questions about his work with Leone.
No idea if he mentions it in the book he wrote either.
