China 9, Liberty 37 / Amore, piombo e furore (Monte Hellman, 1978)


(Phil H) #21

Interested to know why you don’t consider this a SW Stanton. Italian co production, shot in Almeria, full of italian and spanish technicians and actors including Fabio Testi in a leading role. That sounds like a spaghetti to me. Monte Hellman as director is an obvious U.S element but still it has enough criteria to qualify I would have thought.


(Chris_Casey) #22

I think sometimes stanton thinks if there is any American involvement whatsoever it isn’t a Spaghetti Western.
But, if that were the case then THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY wouldn’t qualify because it had advance financing from United Artists. :slight_smile:


(Stanton) #23

I don’t care so much about who did what, or how much americans were involved or not involved, I don’t make a difference between italian and spanish productions, but I care for the style.
If an italian or spanish director made it, it’s a Spag even if it lacks the typical style (but I would set apart the pre-Fistful westerns as forerunners), if someone from another nationality made it, the style decides it for me. And in most cases this decision is an easy one.

In China 9 is of course enough italian involvement to call it a SW, a close view at the credits shows that apart from Hellman and 3 actors all the participants were europeans, mainly italians.
The screenplay was written by Ennio de Concini, who is also named for idea/story.

But the director is an american, and he made this film in a way, which is not Spaghetti like, this film feels completely like an american western. And it was shot in english, not dubbed (or am I wrong? the dialogue doesn’t sound like a dubbed one, is Testi dubbed?)

So the credits say italian, but the style says american. And the original title is, if you watch the credits, China 9, Liberty 37, not Amore, piombo e furore.

This film doesn’t feel like a spag, so for me I would say it’s none. It’s a protestant western, not a catholic one. :wink: (to cite an interesting definition made in our forum)

giggle, defining time again


(ENNIOO) #24

Yes, all about the style for me.


(davidf) #25

[quote=“Bad Lieutenant, post:19, topic:386”]It’s cut, the image quality isn’t that good and the audio sounds hollow making it very hard to make out the dialogue. Not recommended. I’ve turned it off because of these factors.[/quote] i saw this on the mill creek spaghetti western 20 film boxset and i agree with bad l about the image quality and sound especially at beginning of film. i watched it through and thought with it’s cast it could and should have been better than it is. to me is very slow and mostly ponderous and looked cut with visible jumps at times. when the violence comes it is well done and the scene with fabio testi and the whore is quite memorable.average at best.


(alk0) #26

I would also say it’s average. Too slow moving for my taste and it kinda looks to like the makers of this film were trying to make some kind of statment with this one but have forgoten what it was in the middle of the making.


(Bluntwolf) #27

Interesting movie but at very slow pace. Almost too slow for me… but still a nicely done flic with quite well performing leading actors.


(korano) #28

Saw this on the internet. I think Warren Oates is a great actor. But this one is too average and too much of an america feel to it.


(chuck connors brother) #29

Saw the uncut version, doesn’t feel like a Spaghetti Western at all I don’t think, feels more like a Peckinpah style film. I quite liked it… its nice to hear Fabio Testi’s real voice… the soundtrack was really nice, I especially liked the song during the sex scene.


(korano) #30

Shit! And I see the version without the sex scene! :wink:


(Stanton) #31

The sex scenes, to tell the truth.


(korano) #32

Well, I’ve been taking time off from review so I think this one will be a good one to use as my return to reviewing.


(korano) #33

Alright Stanton. We can continue this talk. :wink:

http://www.spaghetti-western.net/index.php/China_9%2C_Liberty_37_Review


(Stanton) #34

[quote=“Stanton, post:20, topic:386”]It’s a slowly developing western (and it’s not a SW), with some realistic touches in the portrayal of people who are forced to lead a secluded life. Similar to Hellman’s earlier works The Shooting and Ride in the Whirlwind.

Interesting film with a wonderful grizzled Warren Oates and a sexy Jenny Agutter.[/quote][quote=“Stanton, post:23, topic:386”]I don’t care so much about who did what, or how much americans were involved or not involved, I don’t make a difference between italian and spanish productions, but I care for the style.
If an italian or spanish director made it, it’s a Spag even if it lacks the typical style (but I would set apart the pre-Fistful westerns as forerunners), if someone from another nationality made it, the style decides it for me. And in most cases this decision is an easy one.

In China 9 is of course enough italian involvement to call it a SW, a close view at the credits shows that apart from Hellman and 3 actors all the participants were europeans, mainly italians.
The screenplay was written by Ennio de Concini, who is also named for idea/story.

But the director is an american, and he made this film in a way, which is not Spaghetti like, this film feels completely like an american western. And it was shot in english, not dubbed (or am I wrong? the dialogue doesn’t sound like a dubbed one, is Testi dubbed?)

So the credits say italian, but the style says american. And the original title is, if you watch the credits, China 9, Liberty 37, not Amore, piombo e furore.

This film doesn’t feel like a spag, so for me I would say it’s none. It’s a protestant western, not a catholic one. :wink: (to cite an interesting definition made in our forum)

giggle, defining time again[/quote]

After checking the thread, I maybe had already discussed the subject.

Peckinpah and Hellman, those 2 Hollywood mavericks, both were close friends.

Hellman was the original choice for Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, but that would have become a very different film as Peckinpah changed and added a lot to the script.
Later Peckinpah gave Hellman a small job to edit some scenes of The Killer Elite, maybe out of twinges of conscience, even if he had nothing to do with Hellman losing the Pat Garrett director’s chair.


(Novecento) #35

Yes, in terms of style this most definitely feels American and overall I would not class it as a Spaghetti either.

[quote=“Stanton, post:23, topic:386”]The screenplay was written by Ennio de Concini, who is also named for idea/story.
But the director is an american, and he made this film in a way, which is not Spaghetti like, this film feels completely like an american western.[/quote]

Indeed, but the Spaghetti undertones can be felt in terms of plot, presumably due to the Italian screenplay: the cynical portrayal of the hanging of the Japanese immigrants; the evil railroad baron stopping at nothing; the Eastern novelist penning the Western myth as the Spaghetti genre dies much like in My Name is Nobody (see Frayling’s remarks on this latter point).

Yes all shot in English and it is great to hear Testi’s real voice. As Franco Nero put it in one of his interviews, it’s so much more realistic to have this accented English as a reflection of the times than everyone sounding like John Wayne. It’s a nice touch having Jenny Agutter put on an Irish accent too, although it appears to drift in and out to my, albeit non-Irish, ear.

Yes, Peckinpah’s cameo was nice too.


(cm215) #36

I started watching this one a year or two ago but never finished in… in fact, I skipped around with the fast forward button and couldn’t find a single thing interesting or remotely entertaining! I hate this movie… haha. I hate Fabio Testi (as an actor that is) too.


(Dorado) #37

I just watched this on the ”Trinity Entertainment” label.
Its full screen, the audio is so bad that its almost impossible to hear the conversations at times and its cut (92 min).
In other words not a disc I would recommend to anyone.
The film it self is average, but I had expected more because of the strong cast.

My recommendation is only to get this one if you can find it in a wide screen and uncut version.


(SWreggie) #38

[quote=“Stanton, post:34, topic:386”]After checking the thread, I maybe had already discussed the subject.

Peckinpah and Hellman, those 2 Hollywood mavericks, both were close friends.

Hellman was the original choice for Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, but that would have become a very different film as Peckinpah changed and added a lot to the script.
Later Peckinpah gave Hellman a small job to edit some scenes of The Killer Elite, maybe out of twinges of conscience, even if he had nothing to do with Hellman losing the Pat Garrett director’s chair.[/quote]

Lol is cool, have only seen the movie, noting its similarity to Pat Garret and Billy the Kid! I did not know that…

For the film, I must say that has not liked about me! In the middle section too tough told! I had also expected a lot from the film …


(Tom B.) #39

The longer versions have Jenny’s bathing screne. I first saw this on Los Angeles TV years ago so it’s been around and should be easy to obtain.


(Stanton) #40

I have the uncut version in bad quality, but there is a very good version in 2,35:1 floating around meanwhile. I will get it one of the next months.