Neither Blu-ray nor HD has been very successful untill today, most people continue to prefer ‘normal’ DVDs, because they are used to them, they own the appropriate equipment and DVD prices have plummeted in recent times (I recently bought at least twenty westerns for not more than some 5 € each).
Another reason for this is the existence of two competing so-called ‘systems of the future’ : as long as there is no winner, people will stick to DVD.
If there will be no winner within reasonable time, all will be losers in the long run (except for a company like Microsoft, who’s plans tend more towards official downloads).
Therefore everything will be done to provoque a decision by those companies who seem to have the upper hand, those who support Blu-ray that is.
And I’m pretty sure that DVD will become obsolete once the dice have been thrown.
And very soon afterwards players will be introduced that play only Blu-ray.
When the battle of the formats is over, and the prices for the winning format (players and recorders) drop, then our (for now good enough) DVD will disappear within a few years. So that the film industry can sell us their stock again, in better quality. But this time it’s really high resolution.
But up to that point I will also stick to my DVDs.
If I had to guess, I would say in 5 years we all buy mainly Blue Ray DVDs.
Does anybody know how the resolution of Blue Ray and HD DVD is compared to 35mm.
35mm is a type of film stock, HD is a digital image format.
both HDDVD and BluRay have their picture encoded in high definition, ranging from lower resolutions up to 1080i or 1080p, which are the highest, with a resolution of over 1900 pixels by whatever pixels (google it).
you can use 35mm stock and process that digitally for high def as well, which is necessary for every movie that’s not already shot in HD (such as star wars for the most part, Collateral, Planet Terror, etc…)
I hope DVD will never become obsolete as it is my essential media for films/music.
If I have to buy a Blue-Ray or HDDVD player in future :’( it had better play DVDS too.
Reading Sebastian’s post made me realise that I need to study and learn more on this.
[quote=“Sebastian, post:23, topic:793”]you’re comparing bananas with chocolate bars.
35mm is a type of film stock, HD is a digital image format.
both HDDVD and BluRay have their picture encoded in high definition, ranging from lower resolutions up to 1080i or 1080p, which are the highest, with a resolution of over 1900 pixels by whatever pixels (google it).
you can use 35mm stock and process that digitally for high def as well, which is necessary for every movie that’s not already shot in HD (such as star wars for the most part, Collateral, Planet Terror, etc…)[/quote]
I haven’t compared b. with ch.
Of course I know the difference between celluloid and digital film.
But you can compare nevertheless the resolution of both standards.
DVD is extremely poor compared to a 35 mm film. A DVD is only ok for a small screen. Most DVDs I have seen with a beamer looked shitty.
The question was if you can get a similar resolution to 35 mm with a Blue Ray disc, so that you can show it in a cinema on the big screen without a great quality difference.
35mm doesn’t really have “a resolution”, as it is not a digital or even analog display format, it is a physical format of film.
you can put a 35mm piece of film in front of a lightbulb and have a picture on a wall, the further you move it away, etc… just like in a movie theater.
PAL has up to 500 something pixles resolution
High Definitions starts at 740 something pixles
35mm is just a way to capture film on celluloid, BluRay is a disc format, and the rest are types of broadcast, storage or resolution.
[quote=“stanton, post:25, topic:793”]I haven’t compared b. with ch.
DVD is extremely poor compared to a 35 mm film. A DVD is only ok for a small screen.[/quote]
In my experience that is just NOT True or correct at all. I own a 37 Inch Large screen TV and 99.99% of my DVDS play a high quality picture with sharp images, rich colours and excellent audio also. That is provided of course that my DVDs are sourced/mastered from original negatives or digitally remastered from the best available sources NOT from Vhs. :’( or other dubious so called “original sources”.
I have also seen DVDS on friends larger screens over 50 inches and the picture quality
was excellent , sharp, well defined, almost faultless.
I totally accept though as Sebastian was correctly pointing out that the new Hd-DVD & Blue-Ray will both have higher pixel resolution than my current DVDs. That will not
matter to me as I am already more than happy with my DVD resolution/pixel density
[quote=“Sebastian, post:26, topic:793”]you’re doing it again.
35mm doesn’t really have “a resolution”, as it is not a digital or even analog display format, it is a physical format of film.
you can put a 35mm piece of film in front of a lightbulb and have a picture on a wall, the further you move it away, etc… just like in a movie theater.
PAL has up to 500 something pixles resolution
High Definitions starts at 740 something pixles
35mm is just a way to capture film on celluloid, BluRay is a disc format, and the rest are types of broadcast, storage or resolution.[/quote]
I’ll understand exactly what you mean, but, well … wir reden aneinander vorbei, fürchte ich. Um es mal auf deutsch zu sagen.
Ich bleibe jetzt einmal beim deutschen weil es mir zu mühselig ist, es aber auch zu ungenau wird, das jetzt alles zu übersetzen.
Ich habe auch mittlerweile ein Buch gefunden das dieses Thema behandelt, ich hätte mir die Frage also auch halbwegs selber beantworten können.
Man kann sehr wohl die Auflösung, also die Anzahl von Bildzeilen/Bildpunkten, von Zelluloid/Rollfilm mit HD vergleichen, auch wenn es sich dabei um 2 grundverschiedene Technologien handelt.
Aber anscheinend hängen die Ergebnisse solcher Vergleiche auch von den Versuchsmethoden ab, also davon was der jeweilige Vergleich an Ergebnissen bringen sollte.
So hat wohl Eastman Kodak herausgefunden das HD1080 nur die Hälfte der Auflösungfähigkeit eines entsprechenden Rollfilmtyps erreicht, während anderen Quellen zufolge fast ähnliche Ergebnisse für beide Formate erzielt wurden.
Sorry for asking a question I could answer by myself. Haha but sometimes thinking first is not the worst idea.
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:27, topic:793”]In my experience that is just NOT True or correct at all. I own a 37 Inch Large screen TV and 99.99% of my DVDS play a high quality picture with sharp images, rich colours and excellent audio also. That is provided of course that my DVDs are sourced/mastered from original negatives or digitally remastered from the best available sources NOT from Vhs. :’( or other dubious so called “original sources”.
I have also seen DVDS on friends larger screens over 50 inches and the picture quality
was excellent , sharp, well defined, almost faultless.
I totally accept though as Sebastian was correctly pointing out that the new Hd-DVD & Blue-Ray will both have higher pixel resolution than my current DVDs. That will not
matter to me as I am already more than happy with my DVD resolution/pixel density :D[/quote]
But it’s nevertheless a Pal or NTSC format, and you have a very, very great loss of details compared to a 35 mm film, because both formats are working with a much too small pixel resolution, enough for a 67 cm TV, but as far as I know with every larger TV the picture can only look more corny. For me a larger TV screen is only good if you watch from a greater distance.
HD 1080 will have a more than 5 times higher resolution compared to a Pal DVD. The question is if this is enough for a big screen cinema projection. And for this it must be compared with the 35 mm standard.
At the Berlinale 2006 the restored version of Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid was shown as digital copy as conclusion to the festival.
well film is not restricted to pixels, for one, so you can make whatever digital print out of film stock.
i am not sure how digital projections in theaters work, but as far as I know, they just use HD material on a harddrive, or transmitted through satellite and then sent to auditoriums
It all depends on just how sophisticated, pixel density, high resolution you require.
For my own use with a 37 Inches (NOT cm !!) Large screen TV I am extremely pleased with
DVD visual images provided the original sources are digitally remastered from original negatives or similar high quality “masters”.
If Stanton or a cinema projectionist is seeking a cinema/theatre projection scenario then I can see the need to calculate screen distances, pixel density and higher resolutions like
HD1080 that HD-DVD and Blue Ray will provide or promise to provide :D.
You have to also bear in mind the commercialism and capitalism :o of always bringing out
or inventing “new” technologies that will put pressure on consumers/buyers to spend
more hard earned money on maybe “upgrading” their DVD collections unto HDDVD or BR :’(
DVD is already for me the absolute best, I cannot see anything in my DVD picture or
image that could be improved by way as to " justify" the enormous expenses involved.
The only “problems” I have visually when viewing a DVD is when the DVD is NOT made
from digitally restored “original” master sources, but instead from some cheap old VHS :’(
Sorry, that I have to be contradictory again. But celluloid has pixels/Bildpunkte/ eine Körnigkeit die man auch sehen kann je näher man der Leinwand kommt; pixels that you can see the nearer you come to the screen.
And the amount of pixels could be determined (ist bestimmbar), but not exactly of course, they don’t count them.
Standard pixel resolutions:
Pal: 720 x 576
HD 1080: 1920 x 1080
2k (1:1,66) : 1828 x 1100
4k (1:1,66) : 3656 x 2200
2k and 4k are low or respectively high resolution standards for the postproduction of 35mm film on HD.
The National Association of Theater Owners have said in 2004 that the minimum for a digital projection in cinemas to resemble 35mm copies must be a 4k resolution of 4096 x 2160.
[quote=“Lode, post:34, topic:793”]Maybe the discussion about thos 2 discs is not needed anymore. I found some german articles about Hollywood an HD. The will you this kind of medium:
I have been talking about it in an earlier post: the activities a company like Microsoft, in the HD DVD camp today, tend more towards internet activities, in this case downloads.
Microsoft is powerfull and their tactics may well be keeping the format war alive, so in the end both Blu-ray and HD DVD will be losers.
But the outcome of these kind of wars is hard to predict. The VHS/BETA/VC2000 war was decided by the large availability of VHS software. There might be hidden agendas here, or similar, unpredictable elements that will be decisive.
We’re talking about free trade; this means - so they say - the freedom of choice;
It’s clear that in this case the customer does not want to choose (he seems satisfied with what he has), so the choice will be made for us (I’m afraid).
Yeah, I saw your post. I only wanted to show, that the big studios in Hollywood. And I think Microsoft an Hollywood will decide, what we will use in 2 years…
Wow. I’ve been away a bit and didn’t see how this progressed. As I do a large amount of wedding and portrait photography, I’ve been involved in scanning film professionally in various formats from 35mm up to 4x5 sheet film. A 3200 ppi scan of 35mm film pretty much pulls everything from the film base. This would result in an image extending 4600x3066……an amount I would consider overkill for motion picture use. Scanning at 2400 ppi would be sufficient, yielding 3456x2304, or about an 8mp equivalent.
I’m a bit sad. HDDVD didn’t have a region code… well… the battle is over, let’s wait for the first region-free BluRay players to come out (80% of all BluRay discs out so far are without region code anyways, though)
Some of you seem to think this is only a bad thing for consumers, but there is always technological progress in the world, and it will probably be a good thing for older mainstream movies and upcoming movies.
Apparently you will also be able to play regular DVDs on a Blue-Ray player, so the formats are compatible.
And regular DVDs will probably be released for old genre-movies and TV shows etc, where the source material isn’t perfect, for years to come. That is, they won’t stop releasing our type of films just because there is a new hi-tech format around.
