A Man Called Blade / Mannaja (Sergio Martino, 1977)

Spaghetti Westerns 🎬
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[quote=“Reverend Danite, post:39, topic:292”]It’ll do for me. If the word “Twilight” simply defines a late entry, post-Trinity-crap, back to basics, mud and gloom, nihalistic, ‘pretend-Trinity-never-happened’, don’t-matter-if-it’s-not-so-original-even, back on form, anti-slapstick, spaghetti western 
 fine. Saves a whole bunch of words. I’d never really considered these films to be ‘anti-Trinity’ particularly, or a reaction against slapstick, but as Leonard Mann said when interviewed (see the podcast thread), he talks of Trinity and rip-offs/offshoots in terms of “
that genre had almost the effect of sort of killing the western.” And this is from the man that was in the frame for the Terence Hill role. And, of course I agree with this sentiment.
Mannaja, California, Keoma, and surely other post-Trinity films - The Grand Duel, Four of the apocalypse, Apache Woman, 
 all of these try to re-discover some aspect of the ‘ethos’ of what the grittier sw films were. There is a place for tongue-in-cheek humour, for Demofilo Fidani (oh yes!), self-referential jokes, and a dark wry inward grin (they’ve always been there) 
 but God preserve us from ‘Man of the East’ et all! “Twilight” - says it for me.

[edit: I suppose even tho’ Grand Duel postdates Trinity, it is almost certainly too early to be ‘Twilight’ of course, because the ‘effect’ and ripples caused by Trinity would not have been felt until at least a couple of years afterwards, when all the copyists were churning out the ‘comedy’ shit (IMO). I don’t know (without doing some dates research) what date could be put on ‘twilight’ - if it is to be defined (at least partly) as a reaction to a glut of this stuff. 
 What year could that be? 1974? Any views?][/quote]

Well said, rev, but I’m not sure The Grand Duel was too early to be ‘twilight’.
The Trinity movies sort of killed the western, and certainly the spaghetti western, but they did not fall out of the blue sky.
Sergio Leone himself once heard people in the streets talking about a western (they) called ‘if you meet Sartana, tell him he’s an asshole’. People making up fake (and silly) titles, he said, is a sign that the genre has started to degenerate. I don’t know in which year Leone said this exactly, but I guess it was before the first Trinity was released. I like the Sartana and Sabata movies, but they were a step towards the (degenerated) comedies; the same can be said about some of Castellari’s work, especially I came, I saw, I shot, or even his - much better - Any Gun can play (it starts the gritty way but turns to comedy somewhere halfway).
I already said once that to me Compañeros was the last truly great spaghetti western; it concludes the brief golden age of the genre, initiated six years earlier by Leone’s A Fistful of Dollars.
My name is Trinity had a trigger effect; after it more serious (‘twilight’) spaghettis were still made, but mass production turned to comedy. I think Anda muchacho, spara, The Grand Duel, Keoma, Mannaja, California, Jonathan of the Bears etc. were all decent films, but they weren’t able to recreate the magic of the preceding decade, let alone the mass production of die hard spaghetti westerns.

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[quote=“stanton, post:40, topic:292”]In 73 and 74 there was (apart from Nobody) nearly nothing worth a look, mostly idiotic and unfunny comedies.

So I use the term Twilight SW only for a few attempts at making a last serious SW from 1975 onwards.

All in all for me there are only 4 of them:

Four of the Apocalypse
Keoma
Manaja
California

(And the last 2 of them are by the way not particularly interesting, average stuff.)[/quote]
I see your point, and would agree that these four (of the apocalypse ;)) have something in common, and are a fitting and ‘grubby’ antidote to ‘post-Trinity-slapstick’ (I’m fond of them all by degrees). Apache Woman is gritty and aint no laughs but is probably reacting TO Soldier Blue, rather than FROM Trinity.
I’ll have a think and see if I think imo that there should be others - nothing off the top of my head tho’.

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[quote=“scherpschutter, post:41, topic:292”]Well said, rev,
Sergio Leone himself once heard people in the streets talking about a western (they) called ‘if you meet Sartana, tell him he’s an asshole’[/quote]
I’ll leave that first bit in - don’t hear that very often! ;D
Yeah, the Sartana/Sabata comedy, high jinks, acrobatics and weoponry is more an acceptable (usually) imo, reaction to James Bond and the such. Silly, sometimes a bit too silly - but not slapstick.

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The SW would have made his degenerating way down also without the Trinity films. Don’t blame them for killing the genre, the tough SW was at the turn of the decade decadent enough to do this by himself. The Trinity films were only the last SWs which were innovating something out of the genre and, because of their enormous success, also starting a new cycle of (mainly bad) films, but they were surely not responsible for the decline of the “serious” SW.

If a genre runs out of ideas and out of success, parodies and comedies are always the last step for the filmmakers to earn a last miserable buck, before everything is completely dead.

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Also, whole western genre basically died out in 80’s in US too. In the early 90’s when western was making comeback Italian film industry has changed completely killing the genre films. Jonathan of the Bears is fine example how sw’s could have made their return but like we have seen more recently (Castellari’s project) financing western in Italy nowadays seems to be impossible.

[quote=“stanton, post:44, topic:292”]If a genre runs out of ideas and out of success, parodies and comedies are always the last step for the filmmakers to earn a last miserable buck, before everything is completely dead.[/quote]Very true. Same thing happened recently with US horror films with all the screams, scary movies etc.

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[quote=“stanton, post:44, topic:292”]The SW would have made his degenerating way down also without the Trinity films. Don’t blame them for killing the genre, the tough SW was at the turn of the decade decadent enough to do this by himself. The Trinity films were only the last SWs which were innovating something out of the genre and, because of their enormous success, also starting a new cycle of (mainly bad) films, but they were surely not responsible for the decline of the “serious” SW.

If a genre runs out of ideas and out of success, parodies and comedies are always the last step for the filmmakers to earn a last miserable buck, before everything is completely dead.[/quote]
I appreciate what you say is true. I suppose I mourn the (inevitable) decline, and to me, the ‘slapstick’ was (the worst) but just one of the nails in Django’s coffin. Imitating, in parts, the James Bond film gimmicks and gizmos, hybridity with the Kung Fu genre, all of these are last-ditch attempts to drag the coffin further (but not creatively so). It had to go, but it may have been prematurely brought about - who knows? I still remain fond of those return-to-glory post-pocalyptic four. Or six? Silver Saddle? (GI/WAI uses that magical “crepuscular” word again), and what about ‘Lucky Johnny’ 
 partly Italian (altho’ some debate)?

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I personally appreciate SW’s from all the eras. Doesn’t matter to me whether it is early or late.

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Most of my top 10 spaghettis are from the 60s but a longer favourite list could be about 50/50, with both decades being equally represented.

If you mean the Sartana cycle and other Giuliano Carnimeo films with some technically Bondian touches, I wouldn’t say they weren’t without creativity, as they’re full of quick-witted “how can we top this” innovations and the cartoonish tone shouldn’t be mistaken for lack of inspiration. For me it’s a plus that films like this didn’t take themselves so seriously as the later 70s attempts to return to form. For me the weakness of many 70s westerns is the sentimental attitude, something that’s there in both the Trinity cycle and some so-called twilighters. Nevertheless, what a fine decade.

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Degenerating, decadent, such harsh words
 I don’t see the Trinity movies (the two of them) as the end but as a new beginning, like Fistful of Dollars they started a boom that produced boring clones but also more ambitious follow-ups. See My Name is Nobody, Lupo’s charming Ben & Charlie and Buddy Goes West, the overlooked and fascinating Nobody’s the Greatest and Corbucci’s The White, the Yellow and the Black combining East meets West parody with an affectionate and solid take on the genre traditions.

Without turning a blind eye on their flaws I admire these films and consider them true SWs in form and spirit, and surprisingly many of them seem to have done well at the Italian box office. I also like some “twilight SWs” but have about as many faves in the comedy or serio-comedy department, which surely doesn’t deserve all the bashings it gets


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[quote=“Hud, post:49, topic:292”]Degenerating, decadent, such harsh words
 I don’t see the Trinity movies (the two of them) as the end but as a new beginning, like Fistful of Dollars they started a boom that produced boring clones but also more ambitious follow-ups. See My Name is Nobody, Lupo’s charming Ben & Charlie and Buddy Goes West, the overlooked and fascinating Nobody’s the Greatest and Corbucci’s The White, the Yellow and the Black combining East meets West parody with an affectionate and solid take on the genre traditions.

Without turning a blind eye on their flaws I admire these films and consider them true SWs in form and spirit, and surprisingly many of them seem to have done well at the Italian box office. I also like some “twilight SWs” but have about as many faves in the comedy or serio-comedy department, which surely doesn’t deserve all the bashings it gets
[/quote]

Well, I don’t think we will ever agree on that.
It’s like the Bond movies, there are people who prefer the parodistic Moore outings, but most Bond devotees talk about them as degenerations. Of course termes like degeneration, decadence etc. sound harsh. But it’s all opionion, don’t take it too seriously.

Personally I don’t hate the Trinity movies; in fact I find them quite entertaining. Like I said the decadence (or whatever you want to call the process of change) started earlier, with the equally entertaining Sartana movies and some of Castellari’s work. But I don’t give a damn about all those comedies that were made in their trail. Ben and Charlie has a few good moments, the opening of My name is Nobody is great, the first Haleluja (with Hilton) is not too bad after a few beers, but that’s about it. And I don’t care too much about the twilights either; GiĂč la Testa and La Banda J&S aren’t bad movies, but they’re far from grade A Leone or Corbucci. Anda muchacho, spara! and The grand Duel recreate some of the magic, Keoma and California are decent, but not vintage, and I hate those four stoned Apocalyptics and the East meet West productions make me shiver.
But it’s all opinion, don’t take it too seriously 


51

Maybe I should use more smileys
 Seriously though I’m sure that decadence and degeneration were terms often used by Hollywood western traditionalists to describe Sergio Leone and other SW pioneers. Of course one can view their work as degenerate offspring of the old school, it just usually leads to ignoring their individual achievements and the ways they did honor and renew the traditions.

In some ways this also applies to later trends of the Italian western, degenerate in some ways but not without some ambitions and entertainment values of their own. What bores me is the common idea of Trinity 1 & 2 as the peak achievements of the SW comedy. As moneymakers they were that but personally I think the better ones started coming afterwards. Enzo Barboni was competent but without real western style as a director
 I can easily imagine that when writing Bullet for a Stranger he visioned something cute like Man of the East instead of the much better film directed by Carnimeo.

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quote=“Hud, post:51, topic:292” I’m sure that decadence and degeneration were terms often used by Hollywood western traditionalists to describe Sergio Leone and other SW pioneers. Of course one can view their work as degenerate offspring of the old school, it just usually leads to ignoring their individual achievements and the ways they did honor and renew the traditions.
(
)[/quote]

Yes, those terms were used by traditionalists to describe Leone and other pioneers, and from their point of view, they had every right to do so. Let’s not forget that Leone’s movies were popular among moviegoers, especially in Europe, the Middle East and Japan, but that few people (or critics, who are people btw) thought that they would be recognized as true masterpieces of filmmaking and still be popular decades later. Today, very few people/critics still like to call them degenerations. Even Philip French, one of the most tradional of all western scholars, recognizes their artistic value. (Of value to him are Leone’s movies, Django, The Great Silence and Django Kill, the rest is still trash).

I don’t even know if I’ve seen the Carnimeo film you mention. I checked the original title on IMdb, it sounded more or less familiar, and with Garko and Berger you can’t go completely wrong, but it don’t think it’s my cup of tea, like all those other comedies with biblical Halelujahs, Cemetaries, Aquasantas or whatever (smileys, no smileys). So for me, yes, the Trinity movies are the peak of SW comedy. However, I do admit that Barboni lacked style as a director. You mention his ‘cuteness’; he was a good cinematographer and had some feeling for (comic) action scenes, but didn’t know very well how to approach the ritualistic foreplay of an action scene, so essential to SW film-making. Therefore the second Trinity is probably better than the first: it’s no more than a series of set pieces, there are no longer typical SW scenes he can blow.

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I recommend the dvd released in Kochmedia’s Hallelujah Collection, including a Carmineo interview with some relevant insider observations on the genre’s more and less serious phases - probably exclusive and not recycled elsewhere. I mentioned that movie as an example of what I see as the difference between a low-budget western stylist and a mainstream comedy journeyman who happened to be one of its writers. For whatever reason it isn’t typical Carmineo (e.g. concealed weapon gizmos) or typical SW comedy (e.g. speeded up slapstick), it’s just a decent, somehow “classical” little western that can easily get overlooked. Don’t let the Biblical names stop you as in the actual movie (the English version) Berger and Garko were called Duke and Ace of Hearts, or something like that


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1.Garko is named Camposanto, That’s cemetery or graveyard, or am I wrong?

But this role is only different by name from his Sartana outings. Also not too much different from the chracters Hilton played for Carnimeo.

  1. I think that Clucher/Barboni really HAD style and his comedies look better than many “serious” SW made in the years before. Most important he was a good (and underrated) comedy director, and yes, for me his 4 comedy westerns are so far the only ones which are funny, but I’m also not too keen to see a lot of them (Ben & Charlie was quite ok and looks great). I also prefer the brutish type of westerns.

  2. Except for Carnimeo’s last 2 films (the awful, unfunny Tresette movies) I wouldn’t compare Carnimeo’s SWs to the pure comedies. There’s enough gunplay and dead people in them, but the comedy elements were increasing with every of his films from the sinister Moment to Kill over the Sartana, Hallelujah, Spirito Santo films up to the Tresette films, where fistfights were finally dominating.
    His best one is imo also the 1st Hallelujah (also his best directed and I love Cipriani’s music) where the balance between violent and comical scenes works in a silly way very well.

  3. The words degeneration and decadence shouldn’t be taken too serious. At least they weren’t meant by me to sound that harsh.

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The title says that “they called him Cemetery” but “they” called him many things in many languages
 Whatever, he’s your basic lethal gentleman type and different from the Biblically named lazy boys


I kind of agree about Barboni as an OK comedy director. Quite possibly he was the only SW director who could make mega successful non-genre spin offs of his western hits, which maybe shows they weren’t very “genre” in the first place


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A thought that just occured to me


Why the hell is this movie called “Mannaja”?

Surly it cannot be the guys name, he is called “Blade”.

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One of my favorites. Solid production for a late SW. I loved Merli and I wished he had done more SW. Shame he died when he did.

[quote=“Col. Douglas Mortimer, post:56, topic:292”]A thought that just occured to me


Why the hell is this movie called “Mannaja”?

Surly it cannot be the guys name, he is called “Blade”.[/quote]

I rewatched it last week and I thought the same thing
 Where does Mannaja fit into the movie?

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[quote=“FrankTalby, post:57, topic:292”]One of my favorites. Solid production for a late SW. I loved Merli and I wished he had done more SW. Shame he died when he did.

I rewatched it last week and I thought the same thing
 Where does Mannaja fit into the movie?[/quote]

As far as I know ‘Mannaja’ is supposed to mean something like ‘Throwing-Blade’ !?! That’s what Merlin’s doing in the movie as you all know, of course :wink: !!!

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OK thanks. Yeah he loves throwing his axes.

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[quote=“Col. Douglas Mortimer, post:56, topic:292”]A thought that just occured to me


Why the hell is this movie called “Mannaja”?

Surly it cannot be the guys name, he is called “Blade”.[/quote]

Sorry Colonel, missed this post earlier

Mannaia (or mannaja) is Italian for the axe used by the executioner