I have to agree now with Phil and Giusti : only one director worked on this film, Buchs
According to Giusti, Fulci started another Buchs movie, ā¦ E divenne il piĆ¹ spietato bandito del Sud, and did the lionās share of the direction of that movie
That Buchs movie is aka El hombre que mato Billy el NiƱo (The English title is obvious, I suppose ā¦)
Great review and great shirt (Hiltonās). I really like this film as well, but didnāt realise my VCI version was so heavily cut (moreso than Hiltonās shirt by the sound of it).
The Opera of Violence book calls this film (confusingly) āVengeance is Mineā.
Phil H, I hope you donāt mind me pointing out one error in the review.
Because as far as I know (I donāt know what she looks like ) Annabella Incontrera is the woman in this screenshot http://www.sundances.net/spaghetti/screenshots/sandovalcut4.jpg and the character is called Carol Day, and she and the scenes she is in have nothing to do with Rosa.
The version (VHS from Sweden and titled āVengeance is Mineā) I have appears to be about 11minutes longer than the VCI disc and there is no Rosa anywhere, and I am not aware of any longer version anywhere (although the Spanish teatrical release might have been couple of minutes longer IF some sites are correct).
I donāt mind at all amigo. The greatest value of this forum is the sharing of information about a genre which is confusing by its very nature. (Alternate titles, actors using various names, different running lengths in different countries etc)
However, your information just makes me more intrigued as to what has been cut out of the VCI version of this film. I based my comment in the review on the fact that Sandovalās daughter (the mother of Hiltons baby) is refered to as Rosa and all the cast lists I have seen list Annabella Incontrera as playing a character by that name. Just to confuse matters she seems to be also listed as playing the Carol Day character which you mention. As far as I remember, that character doesnāt appear in the VCI version either. But presumably does in the swedish VHS version you have. Now Iām really confused!!
Can anyone else shed some light on this little puzzle?
* VCI:
The VCI disc seems to be cut by atleast about 9 minutes 42
seconds completely eliminating one subplot.
The first missing scene is 5minutes 44seconds long. After
Sandoval has described the gang Warner has gathered around
him, the gang enters into some abandoned fort or something and
they encounter a party of three there: Senator Rhodes, Carol
Day and their escort Lieutenant Farrell. Farrell fights with
and is about to kill Morton but Warner shoots Farrell in the
back. The senator and Carol offer the gang $2000 if they'll be
their escorts into some union mine and Warner says he'll sleep
on it. During the night One Eye tries to rape Carol but Warner
stops him and spends the night with her himself.
Image1 Image2 Image3 Image4 Image5
The first cut ends here and we see the scene with Sandoval and
the maid at his daughter's bedroom.
After that a second missing scene comes (about 2minutes27sec
long) where the Warner gang is preparing to leave the fort and
Warner says they'll leave the senator and Carol behind and
will not take the money. Carol gets angry and doubles the
offer which makes One Eye interested but Warner stops One Eye
from leaving the gang and so the gang leaves the fort.
Image6 Image7
The beginning of the next scene seems to be also missing from
the VCI disc (unless it was placed differently and I missed
it). After the gang has left the fort they stop for a while
and Sam begins to question their actions and Warner says "if
you had to be a killer once, you better go on being one if you
want to stay alive" and speaks about their and their families
fate... there is also a discussion about the next course of
action after which Sam mentions Los Cedros which is present on
the VCI disc as well. About 1minute20seconds is missing of
this scene in the VCI disc?
Image8 Image9
The fourth cut is only a second long, after the gang starts
shooting at the bullring, they (probably Warner) manage to
shoot the mexican General before they are killed.
Image10
There might be something else missing as well since the
swedish VHS of this movie (where the movie is titled
'Vengeance Is Mine') is about 1:37:37 long which converted to
NTSC would make it close to 102minutes and over 11minutes
longer than the NTSC VCI disc.
Also, a spanish theatrical release of the movie may be
105minutes long, but no idea if this is true or not.
All the other discs may have these same cuts. Atleast some of
them are missing the subplot featuring Carol Day (played by
Annabella Incontrera?).
Thanks for that Stanton.
That at least clears up who Carol Day is. But Iām still confused about the whole Rosa thing. Giustiās Dizionario, IMDB, our own database and even Weisser (bless him) list Incontrera as playing Rosa. So far though, no one seems to have ever seen her in any version of the film. A mystery lady indeed!
Also, according to Giusti the original running time of the film in Italy was 108 minutes. Not sure how accurate that is of course. But, if true, would suggest the film may have been cut by more like 15 minutes on the VCI disc.
Nothing is ever simple in this genre is it ;D
I found the trailer on You Tube and simple entered Isabella Incontrera in Google āimagesā . Youāll get a lot a photos, also a still from SANDOVAL
According to that still she is the woman that appears at 2.35 in the trailer:
I finally got to see this movie. I saw the VCI disc. The version of the film seems very cohesive to me, although it would be sharp to see the excised sequences. For me, it was a tough go in the beginning but I must say I got swept up in the 2nd and 3rd acts. Some in the supporting cast are very strong.
I was interested in the āFulciā thing. I must say that this thread was very informative reading.
IMO, I think SWDB should take down the āFulciā director credit.
There is enough evidence in this thread to support Mr. Buchs.
8)
The database should stick to the official credits. If there are uncredited involvements, it should be mentioned as uncredited, if possible with an explanation.
One of the best spaghettis ever made. Great acting, directing, plot, script, and locations. I noticed how ārealisticā the gunfights seemed comapred to other spaghettis where a bunch of people fire and a their targets just start dropping like flies. You actually see the characters aim at their targets instead of them firing and theirntargets falling. anyway, great movie which Lucio Fulci apparently co directed.
Also, I hear a lot of whinning as to why Ernest Brognine wasnāt in more spaghettis. One film that is not on the database which stares Borgnine exists. It is very unknown. It is called āRain for a Dusty Summerā AKA āGuns of the Revolutionā
When George Hilton is handed over his baby, I just knew that this baby was not going to live (even the first time I viewed the film). What serious Spaghetti is going to have a main character of a film riding around with a baby for longā¦
The transition of Hilton from good to bad does not work for me 100%, and Borgnine always seems to be shouting.
And of course the VCI disc is cut which does not help matters.
Second viewing for me too, this time sobre.
Disappointing and uneven film that never manages to impress, except for the sinister grave robbing bit in the beginning. The screenplay is incoherent and the final is a letdown. Come on, a lame knife fight and then Borgnine with the bull. Hahaha. Hiltonās acting kinda annoyed me and Borgnine is completely out of place as a Mexican. Also, too much happens out of the blue and some things are just not credible enough. Not the worst, but insufficient anyway.
Even with missing footage, this one was has long been a favorite of mine. It played last week on Encore Westerns. The print used was a good one, but was fullscreen and the same version on the VCI disc. I really liked Hiltonās performance and found it refreshing lin lieu of his many quasi annoying comedic roles. A very brutal, somber and violent movie. I thought Borgnine was misplaced and most likely chosen for his name value. He didnāt seem a good choice for the Spanish patriarch. And the Chang Cheh style ending (the āheroesā surrounded against insurmountable odds) was a major plus. Is there a decent quality DVD-R of the more complete version floating around anywhere?
Very good and serious āwarā western, although the transformation of Hilton into an outlaw and generally the motives behind the forming of the gang might not be extremely convincing. The bull scene was very raw and brutal, totally effective imo despite the abscene of much blood and goreā¦the final scene in the arena was somehow expected, but it fits perfectly anyway.
8/10, maybe a bit more.