I don’t think so. I still think that the Influence of SWs on US Ws is very low, apart from Eastwood’s westerns. I think that US directors did not care much for Spagies, that they ignored them, despised them, thought they were laughable.
Peckinpah tried already a lot in his TV series The Westerner, and everything what was problematic to show in 1964 was a trend in 1968. Leone may have had his influence on this, but I think that US films like The Dirty Dozen and Bonnie and Clyde were for Hollywood much more important.
I think without SWs the US W in the 70s would have been more or less the same, cause the fundament for those can easily be found in the US Ws of the early 60s, which were build on what was done in the 50s and so on.
The only real SW influence on US Ws is that there are most likely more dusters to see on the screen. But style, atmosphere, score, action, stories and themes are all typical american.
You’re that guy. So now I’m this guy… wtf?! Dirty dozen and bonnie and clyde were only because of spaghettis. Sam is quoted as saying if it weren’t for leone and those italian cowboy movies , it would not be possible for him or Sturges or Penn.
In turn what these spaghettis did to the lexicon of film language in general is insurmountable. And if we start waxing poetic about the chicken or the egg, two words… Vera Cruz.
Sorry, didnt mean to come off crude and rude, we all know and understand the passion we have. I respect your statement. Points both, are valid. Cheerz mate.
Watching Today It’s Me… Tomorrow You right now. It goes in a few directions I can predict but others I don’t expect. Also, bug-eyed psychotic Tatsuya Nakadai is a lot of fun.
Duck, You Sucker! is a good one. I think that a better actor could have been cast for Juan. He’s a good character and Rod Steiger’s performance showed a lot of promise.
[quote=“SamPeckinpah, post:82, topic:1497, full:true”]
Dirty dozen and bonnie and clyde were only because of spaghettis. [/quote]
And in that case here I think an influence of SWs is even more unlikely. The only Spags which got a wider recognition in the USA were the ones by Leone, and the Dollar trilogy was not released there before 1967.
[quote]
Sam is quoted as saying if it weren’t for leone and those italian cowboy movies , it would not be possible for him or Sturges or Penn. [/quote]
Leone was of course one director who helped to change the screen violence, to push the boundaries of what was possible and what not, but he wasn’t the only one. And the specific way he directed his shoot-outs, the way he scored the violence and the conception of his ritualistic duels became never part of the US westerns. While most of the SWs followed and copied his stylistic and narrative concepts.
It is also interesting that many books about Peckinpah don’t mention Leone a single time. Amongst them our audio commentary experts Weddle, Simmons, Garner and others.
But books on SWs talk a lot about Peckinpah.
I disagree on 2 things, 1. To say the landscape of film only changed in 67 when we (USA) got the dollars trilogy, is a bit naive. To think american directors didnt go abroad and witness these films is to simple. 2. You said “And the specific way he directed his shoot-outs, the way he scored the violence and the conception of his ritualistic duels became never part of the US westerns.”, Look at the scene in PG&BK where Pat is at the bar and the Kids gang comes in, the framing is pure leone, we see Pat on the left and the 3 gang members on the right, it is a showdown , it is a duel, it just has talking. But Pat takes them out systematically , just not as flashy or quick like spag gunfighters.
[quote=“SamPeckinpah, post:87, topic:1497, full:true”]
I disagree on 2 things, 1. To say the landscape of film only changed in 67 when we (USA) got the dollars trilogy, is a bit naive. To think american directors didnt go abroad and witness these films is to simple. [/quote]
I did not say that.
I only think if there was an influence by Spagies than it was by the Leone westerns, the only ones which found a wider recognition, even if it was in the beginning mostly a negative one.
And that’s why I assume a SW influence was barely there before 1967.
And I still doubt that back then US directors had much interest in European westerns.
Without checking this scene again, I don’t remember anything in it which is specifically SW like. Especially nothing which is pure Leone.
If the first scene of The Deadly Companions would have been found in a film of 1969 everybody would have spoted a massive SW influence, but it is from 1961.
And I’m just watching diverse episodes of Peckinpah’s TV series The Westerner (from 1960, and which is astonishingly good). There’s lot of stuff in it which is very Spag like, of which people often say that the SW brought it to the US western. And this is only a TV series.
Before this he made a TV movie about a Marshal who once cleaned a town, but now he kills the people before they can commit a crime. I haven’t watched it, but it sounds like an idea typically associated with the decadent SW.
Before i begin i will say that the dirty outlaws (1967) is the most underated spaghetti western in histroy. I love the fact that wild east has put it out on dvd. I just watched it again the other night and Franco Rossetti is truly on fire behind that camera.Sadly this was his only seat in the directors position. The opening scene, the dragging through the mud, the killing and fooling of a blind disabled man, the lying from “Bill” who has everyone knows turned out to be an outlaw named Steve, on a quest to fool everybody he comes in contact with and of the course that ending, where Steve totally gives our gang leader what he deserves. This film is violent, dark, grim,and jsut full of madmen. I could watch this film over and over and it dosen’t get old.
Some of the others I think got overlooked are
First is Killer Caliber 32 (1967) starring the underated Peter Lee Lawrence. Would somone help me out here?
Also Ben and Charlie (1972) This is one of the best “buddy” spaghetti westerns out there.
Last is Kill them all and come back alone (1968) Seriously Chuch Connors and Frank Wolff in the same film.
I think all 4 are appreciated here as they deserve. For me Killer Caliber 32 and Kill them all and come back alone are rather overrated.
I like The Dirty Outlaws, the others are lesser ones.
Yeah, I like The Dirty Outlaws, it was in my spag top 20 at one point. It’s slid just outside my top 40 at the moment but it could use a re-watch. I might save it another seven months though and watch it during this year’s SpagvemberFest, which I’m theming “Could Use a Re-Watch” (although tbh that title, “Could Use a Re-Watch”, could use a re-think. I think).
Placed 249th, 251st and 467th respectively among westerns with country of origin Italy on IMDb A Bullet for Sandoval, Kidnapping and Quinto: non ammazzare are in my opinion significantly underrated.
Boot Hill (1969) seems to have a very low rating on rotten tomatoes but a very high rating on indieflix. Can anyone explain this? I personally think the cast ( Hill, Strode, Stander, Spencer) is an all star cast.
I don’t think it’s very good, but what has hurt the film’s reputation probably more than anything else, is that people have watched it over the years in the expectation to get a comedy western in the style of Trinity. I saw it in cinema in the early Seventies, I guess '73 or '74, and it was clearly presented as a Trinity like movie. They had created new publicity material in the style of Trinity and a slogan was used that said something like “The boys are back!” Most people in the theatre started yelling and booing after a while: What the hell is this! We want our money back! etc.
Finally saw Johnny Yuma (1966) directed by Romolo Guerrieri, and I almost thought I was watching an early Corbucci film. As far as the characters, I thought Rosalba Neri played a good part as a wicked women, and Mark Damon is of course Johnny Yuma, did a good job too. I enjoyed the gothic/ crime feel. Its also a revenge flick, with a decent body count. Guerrieri made a film similiar in running time, looks, and plot that could easily have been done by Corbucci. (Maybe because Damon was cast in Ringo and his Golden Pistol). Even the soundtrack could be a corbucci one, anyhow, I thought resembled Minnesota Clay, without the depressing ending. Yuma is more of a dectetive then anything and Samantha seems more like a villian in Charlie’s Angels then a western anatogonist. Either way it was enjoyable and I will have to see it again soon.
