The context of rape in Spaghettis


(Sieglinde) #20

Well, in some SWs the rapist is a very handsome man… ;D so the girls fall in love with them.
I wouldn’t, but if the rapist would be Camaso, Milian, or Volonté, he wouldn’t need to rape me. :stuck_out_tongue: :-[ ;D

The other girl type is who dies like the girls in FAFDM and Tepepa. ??? They are so silly…

The best is Jill, who only needs hot water. :smiley:


(Silvanito) #21

Maybe the girl in For a Few Dollars More killed herself, not because of the rape, but because Indio first shot her boyfriend?


(Silvanito) #22

[quote=“Phil H, post:18, topic:946”]This is an important point, I think.
For example, Cemetery Without Crosses was discussed earlier. Now, for me, Hossein’s character is genuinely troubled by what he allows to happen to the girl in this film. And, moreover, it is shown as a tragic event with tragic circumstances for all involved. Hossein’s complicitness in the girl’s violation leads to his own demise and is not trvialised at any point. It is also handled tastefully, and I think more effectively, by happening off screen; with only the girls screams to convey the assault.[/quote]

I agree about CWC

Also Maria (Michele Mercier) seems to be very troubled by what she allows to happen to the girl

But this is a very grim and tragic film in other ways too, Manuel also kills the two innocent men in the saloon just so that he can be hired by the Rogers gang


(Sieglinde) #23

Perhaps… but I think she and Indio knew each other before. Perhaps he loved her, then he was in prison, and when he came home…
Well, I would shoot the rival, too.
Okay, I love Indio, so I can’t understand that girl… :slight_smile:


(Phil H) #24

Indio over Lorenzo Robledo??
I’m deeply hurt! ;D


(Silver) #25

I think also that this is the probable reason she shot herself. But besides that, when she shot herself, Indio quite obviously hadn’t “finished” so in another way she was denying him satisfaction (unless he was a closet necrophile).


(Silvanito) #26

[quote=“Phil H, post:24, topic:946”]Indio over Lorenzo Robledo??
I’m deeply hurt! ;D[/quote]

You got two scenes mixed up there Phil

We’re talking about the flashback scene with Peter Lee Lawrence and Rosemary Dexter, not the scene where Indio shoots a woman and her child off-screen


(Phil H) #27

Ah yes, sorry. I should have known. No sensible woman would shun Lorenzo!


(Sieglinde) #28

Poor Lorenzo was always killed… :’(

Well, I can imagine very dark things about Indio, but this one is the cause of his madness… the obsession with the watch… and his death wish. (Sure he has it… or he’s pretty illogical with the strategy)

The girl could have shot him very easily…


(Romaine Fielding) #29

A roommate of mine used to have a large framed photo on her wall. It was entitled something like “American girl in Italy.” It was probably from the 1950’s or maybe later. It showed a girl walking down the street and all around her were leering, hooting men.
Much of Italian action cinema (of the Spaghetti type) was made to appeal to just these fellows. Women in westerns, generally, are devalued. Mix that further with a culture of strong machismo (Italy). Then create a commercial product meant to shock or draw attention (fill the seats). That’s one way of looking at what you get with women in Spaghettis.
I agree, of course, with Bad LT & others that, within the context of “movies” mostly anything is viewable.
Within the larger context of violence against everybody/everything, the violence against women in Spaghettis is but a part.
Last night I watched Hole In The Forehead. Robert Hundar drowned a woman in a tub of beer and massacred a monestery of monks. Which is worse?

Phil, poor Lorenzo does get killed an awful lot. I remember a particularly rough dispatching in Fasthand.
Does he ever make it through a whole movie?


(Phil H) #30

Only one I can think of is Fort Yuma Gold but he only really appears at the end as a bearded Rebel officer so no real chance for him to get knocked off.
I thought he might survive in Navajo Joe when I first saw it as he is one of Aldo Sambrell’s gang and is still alive and kicking up until about 10 minutes from the end. But, alas, it was not to be. He got his the same as the rest of the gang and wound up sprawled in a bloody heap in the desert as usual.
But I live in hope of finding a film somewhere in which he survives from start to finish and maybe even gets a line to speak too. Now that would be a rarity!


(Romaine Fielding) #31

[quote=“Phil H, post:30, topic:946”]Only one I can think of is Fort Yuma Gold but he only really appears at the end as a bearded Rebel officer so no real chance for him to get knocked off.
I thought he might survive in Navajo Joe when I first saw it as he is one of Aldo Sambrell’s gang and is still alive and kicking up until about 10 minutes from the end. But, alas, it was not to be. He got his the same as the rest of the gang and wound up sprawled in a bloody heap in the desert as usual.
But I live in hope of finding a film somewhere in which he survives from start to finish and maybe even gets a line to speak too. Now that would be a rarity![/quote]

Well, I think that’s a good reason to check out Ft Yuma Gold.
Lorenzo is near and dear to the hearts of many Spaghetti fans for his seminal appearance in Fistful. His was the first face I recognized widely.
My favorite character actor is Benito Stefanelli. I am fascinated by his facial hair in all its infinite manifestations.


(scherpschutter) #32

I’m not sure but I think he survives THE BIG GUNDOWN

In an amazing sequence he gives Lee something to drink
Subsequently he is knocked down by him
And … Lee steals his horse

Something like that
When I saw it I said to myself: Oh yes, this must happen to this poor guy


(Phil H) #33

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:32, topic:946”]I’m not sure but I think he survives THE BIG GUNDOWN

In an amazing sequence he gives Lee something to drink
Subsequently he is knocked down by him
And … Lee steals his horse

Something like that
When I saw it I said to myself: Oh yes, this must happen to this poor guy[/quote]

Yes, I think you are right. He doesn’t always get killed I guess. Sometimes he just gets beaten up and left for dead.


(ENNIOO) #34

Good point…so this behaviour may be with us for some while yet…


(lordradish) #35

Jeez, this thread has some mojo!

Some further thoughts… Phil H’s comment about 'a chance to get more tits on the screen"… honestly, I wouldn’t have minded more of that, (especially considering how goddess like some of the SW women are… Claudia Gravy in Matalo…oh yeah.), but tits in the context of a rape are hardly 'tit’ilating.

The west was a brutal place, and I don’ t necessarily see a rape in a film in and of itself as something that shouldn’t be in a film.It’s just that whole 'falling in love madly with the rapist thing" that’s so distasteful to me as a film watcher.

Great conversations, people. I like it here.


(Romaine Fielding) #36

I watched Those Dirty Dogs! this weekend.
I think it may be the most overtly anti-femaile Spaghetti I’ve seen. And that’s saying a lot.
Before I go any further I want to say I really like this movie even if I offer some negative thoughts. It was great fun and over the top (in a good way) in some regards.
This is a weird movie in many ways (it has Gianni Garko playing an Allah worshipping bounty killer named “Koran”).
The lead actor, Stephen Boyd, wrote and sung the lyrics to the title song “Riding With The Wind”.
The refrain of the song is:
" Woman, you’re not a friend.
Every time I come to you I find that you’re changin’ you’re mind.
Always when the chips are down I find I can’t be trusting your kind."

The women in the film are routinely abused, tortured and killed.
One woman who is being tortured in front of her husband actually makes a lust driven pass at her tormenter because she finds her husband weak. Okaaaay.
“Koran” chuckles at this.
Yikes.


(lordradish) #37

That’s too funny. What release is this?


(Romaine Fielding) #38

The SPO Japanese release. I think it is out of print, unfortunately.
Garko also carries, El Topo like, an umbrella. Only his is a disguised machine gun. He also has a primitive bazooka type weapon.
One of the problems with this fun movie is that it can’t decide what it wants to be. Sometimes it seems brutal and serious, other times it seems like a tongue-in-cheek romp.


(Garko Forever) #39

“Those Dirty Dogs!” reminds me of one of the Lone Wolf & Cub movies in its mix of over the top elements (such as violence and sexuality), as well as in its visual imagery of Garko with his perisol/umbrella and hidden armaments. I really like this SW, in spite of the fact that it IS a bit mysogenistic in its views toward women. I also agree that its comedic elements come out of left field, but never detract from the movie as a whole. The villain is especially over the top and seems perhaps inspired by James Bond villains, complete with his hidden, cave-based lair and the massive assault of it at the end.