[quote=âevilxelvis138, post:117, topic:335â]Hey guys, I found a copy of The Big Gundown on an upload site and I am trying to figure out what version it is. It is titled â1966 The Big Gundownâ, and the length is 1:45:37. I believe the audio track is the one Franco Cleef made. According to the screen-shots on cultcine.com, the quality of the copy I have is better than Franco Cleefâs but not as good as Cultcineâs, and the resolution of my copy doesnât match either. Are cultcineâs images accurate? Their screenshot should be identical to Kochâs and autephexâs versions right? Iâve included a link to all 3 screenshots.
Just watched this a week ago and now im definitely hooked on Spagetti Westerns (previously i had watched Dollar Trilogy and Câera una volta il West). Even though i had seen those Leoneâs classics before this, i still loved the movie. This was a great & entertaining movie. And thatâs why i really love spaghetti westerns.
Lee Van Cleef is on fire here. I also loved the plot, and how the characters changed during the film. I got to mention Ennioâs music once again, words canât describe how nicely it fits to these movies. One of the top moments was the part when Cuchillo is running and hiding on the hayfield and Ennioâs incredible music starts to play, what a scene! 8)
[quote=âJude, post:122, topic:335â]One of the top moments was the part when Cuchillo is running and hiding on the hayfield and Ennioâs incredible music starts to play, what a scene! 8)[/quote]My favorite scene from the TBG.
Welcome to the forum, Jude.
Yes, this is one my favourite one as well! A trademark scene of the SW genre where the score takes the lead and transcends a scene to higher levels! It simply sends shivers up and down my spine! Truly imposing!
[quote=âLindberg, post:34, topic:335â]That singer is called Khrissy I think, she did some more work on spaghettis, wasnât it Tepepa?
Sheâs not bad, my question was aimed at Stanton![/quote]
Christy is the singer. She must be the same Christy who sang the theme song of Mario Bavaâs Diabolik, called âDeep Down.â
I just had to put this quote from Sollima about La resa dei Conti in the Interview Novecento showed me, I do not if anybody else as read it, but coming from the director itself itâs just fantastic
MM: Resa⌠was different also from the point of view of introducing what the Italian newspapers called the political western. The character of Cuchillo is totally unprecedented in western cinematography, even in the american one. He fights with a knife against firearms. He points at the hyprocrit behaviour of the rich and powerful with few, piercing sentences, coming from the intelligence of a hunted human being who must simply survive, day by day.He is able to rock and shake the iron moral beliefs of Johnatan Corbett, who does things because he believes in the law. Cuchillo tells him âŚwhich law, the law of the one who chases or of the chased?.
SS: James Coburn uses a knife in Magnificent Seven, but it has a totally different and tactically limited meaning. Cuchillo uses a knife because he is a proletarian, he is too poor to buy a gun and ammo, in fact he does not want to be armed at all. He says in a certain scene, he would much prefer to use a knife to cut breadâŚ! So the knife and Cuchillo bring a whole new view of the western myth into play, the one of the really poor, the forsaken, the people with no choice. In reality he traces an image of those who did not sustain the myth of the Wild West, on the contrary, Cuchillo abates the myth itself! And he triggers, symbolically, the crumbling of Corbett´s firm beliefs in a social order, in the law, in a cast-oriented structure of society, in the honesty of the wealthy in pursuing the âbenefit of Texasâ.
[quote=âEl Topo, post:127, topic:335â]MM: Cuchillo tells him âŚwhich law, the law of the one who chases or of the chased?.
SS: He says in a certain scene, he would much prefer to use a knife to cut breadâŚ![/quote]
Terrific, thanks alot for the tidbit El Topo. Iâll have tg rewatch the film because I donât actually remember those two quotes being in the film. Its been a while though.
Finally got around to watching this one and was not disappointed at all. By far one of the best final duels. That is a scene that I would show someone in order to pique their interest in the genre. I tend to be a critical viewer, and there was nothing that rubbed me the wrong way. Millian is wonderful and Van Cleef is as cool as ever. Everything seemed to just click with this one.
Just watched the Koch disc and have a couple of questions:
Iâm sure someone must have asked this before, but why is there a brief snippet of music from âFaccia a Facciaâ when Cuchillo rides off after tricking Corbett with the snake? Iâll have to check my Franco Cleef copy again, but I certainly donât remember that happening :o ???
Is the English subtitle track based on the English audio which very sadly is not included on the disc? I havenât confirmed this by comparing the Franco Cleef disc, but it doesnât match the Italian audio and there are even bits where it disappears. Alternatively has someone just translated the German dubbing?
Is the Sollima interview the whole one included from the Sollima box or has it been shortened for this individual release?
[quote=âNovecento, post:130, topic:335â]Just watched the Koch disc and have a couple of questions:
Is the English subtitle track based on the English audio which very sadly is not included on the disc? I havenât confirmed this by comparing the Franco Cleef disc, but it doesnât match the Italian audio and there are even bits where it disappears. Alternatively has someone just translated the German dubbing?[/quote]
Yes, unfortunately the English subs are not from the Italian version, but surely also not from the butchered German version, which is so bad that I always watch it in Italian with Engl. subs. The German subs are only dub subs, and therefore as wrong as the dub.
The English subs are at least closer to the original than the German version.
I wonder then if they have actually given us the English subtitles from the English audio that is not included?
It seems the only official release with English audio is the Japanese release by Columbia which apparently is very good although heavily cut down to 90 minutes NTSC.
[quote=âNovecento, post:130, topic:335â]Just watched the Koch disc and have a couple of questions:
Iâm sure someone must have asked this before, but why is there a brief snippet of music from âFaccia a Facciaâ when Cuchillo rides off after tricking Corbett with the snake? Iâll have to check my Franco Cleef copy again, but I certainly donât remember that happening :o ???
âŚ
Is the Sollima interview the whole one included from the Sollima box or has it been shortened for this individual release?[/quote]
Ok, have answered #3 by looking at the database entry for the box set where the interview runs about 1 hour. I guess this must have been shortened for the individual release.
Itâs a shame they did not fix the audio glitch mentioned in #1 in the individual release.
Fuck it. Seen it a couple times and liked it. But the last time it all seemed⌠very talky. Some weed, some beer⌠ok, feel good. But then. an abundance of talk. Really liked the Pazzafini - Van Cleef shooout, but apart from that itâs boring, Turned it off to rewatch (again and again) Lenziâs Spasamo. No top 30 material, this Big Gundown.
[quote=âBad Lieutenant, post:65, topic:335â]Does anybody know anything about this release? [/quote]
Received my copy last week and finally had the chance to sit down and watch it. This is a Columbia âPremiumâ release which means it contains a nice little booklet in Japanese about the film. The image and the absolutely essential English audio track are of excellent quality and, ignoring the cuts, this is easily the best version of the film I have seen.
As for the cuts, this is the slightly longer Columbia cut whose two complete cuts are the monastery scene and the one of Cuchillo with his wife. The other cuts seem to involve the shortening of other scenes, but the movie still remains wholly coherent.
Personally, I do not find the cuts overly offensive apart from two which I find really upsetting. The first has been mentioned many times, but it is the second that is, in my opinion, far worse:
The shortening of the initial scene with the three bandits from which the excellent shot of Van Cleef placing the bullets on the log has been removed.
The slight shortening of the chase through the cane fields and the duel between Cuchillo and Shep. In particular, the truly excellent shot of Cuchillo crouching down as the camera then pulls up and over him to reveal the vastness of the cane fields and his pursuers has been removed! Why the editors at Columbia would see fit to edit these, but leave the ranch scene with Nieves Navarro intact is beyond me!
I would cut the Navarro ranch completely out (if cutting is inevitable), from which at least the pacing of the film would benefit a lot. Would make the film better imo.
But Novecento, why buying a cut version, if an uncut is available?
Here are my opinions on the three releases I have seen:
Japanese Columbia disc:
Pros: Best all round in terms of quality (i.e. video and audio); has English audio
Cons: Is Cut
Franco Cleef bootleg disc:
Pros: English audio and uncut (except for Cuchilloâs reaction shot after the duel which is retained on the cut Japanese release)
Cons: Image and audio quality (although the cane fields sequence sounds much better than the German release)
German Koch disc:
Pros: Uncut with very good image
Cons: Audio is dull sounding in the Italian version and there is no English audio option; English subtitles are poor; the music is messed up in one section where the tune from Faccia a Faccia plays instead
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