Yeah, Million Dollar Baby was pretty average without doubt.
Me, too!
Well, did we get an answer to the question:
"Are Spaghetti Western fans and conventional, traditional western fans completely different groups of people? " ;D
Most people who have answered here seem to think not, but there are many who havenât spoken out, what do they think⌠???
My views are that if you like movies in general and if you like the âwestern businessâ in general you probably enjoy both types of films.
But if youâre not into movies in general and if youâre not particularly a sucker for horses, western costumes, the gun-play etc, and instead mainly look for other things in these films, like the sardonic humour, the negative stuff, the violence, the operatic music and so on, then itâs not so strange why you donât find much of interest in classical Hollywood westerns.
Modern American westerns are another thing since they became heavily influenced by the spaghetti westerns!
[quote=âSilvanito, post:43, topic:709â]Well, did we get an answer to the question:
"Are Spaghetti Western fans and conventional, traditional western fans completely different groups of people? " ;D
Most people who have answered here seem to think not, but there are many who havenât spoken out, what do they think⌠???[/quote]
Well I fall into the minority catagory for the most part - but I probably havnât seen too many of the best old and new hollywood westerns that have been mentioned. Subjected to some of the worst sunday afternoon black/white (colourwise and characteration) stuff as a kid, it took until my dad took me to see The Magnificent 7 before I came round to appreciating the western.
But it was a bunch of spaghettis that I saw on tele that really fired me up - Django; Adios Sabata and of course the Leone ones.
To date I have a collection of about 250 spaghettis and only a handful (obviously not a âfistfulâ) of american stuff (and nonsense)! This does not, however, mean that I am not going to get excited about going to see 3:10 - and I will be certainly be on the lookout for Tombstone after all the good reports!
Hey thatâs me. Well formulated.
Well Iâve just got back from seeing â3:10 to Yumaâ, as far as I can recollect itâs the first time Iâve ever seen any Western on the big screen. Pretty awesome experience and I would recommend the film to anyone. Sure perhaps it lacked the âmagicâ (BTW whatâs Italian for âje ne sais qua?â 
) thatâs in those classic Spaghettiâs we all know and love but a really great film and a refreshing change from the commercialised tripe thatâs more often put out in cinemas today.
Iâm glad you enjoyed it. I think most SW fans who donât normally watch conventional westerns would like this film. I agree it is less âcommercializedâ than usual.
In the English speaking world, the only Spaghetti westerns really estimated are Sergio Leoneâs westerns and two Corbucci westerns, Django + The great Silence. Nearly all other SWs are either dismissed or trated patronizingly (those with American stars like Van Cleef, Cotton etc. The situation has improved a little in the last decade, but just a little. Maybe Tarantino, who defenitely loves SWs, can finally introduce post modern cinemagoeers to the spaghetti dish âŚ
Itâs probably Philip French, and important film critic, who is responsable for this. In his influential book âWesternsâ he wrote:
I cannot abide European westerns, whether German, Italian or British, and I donât like much American westerns in Spain <<
He wrote this in '73, later said that it maybe was a bit too harsh, but added the following footnote to the 2005 version of the book:
Thereâs a body of opinion which would argue that this disqualifies me as a true student of the genre. So be it >>
The classical American hero, epitomized by Shane, did what he had to do because he felt he had to do it: it was a moral obligation. He could have a violent past - or right-wing sentiments for that part - but deep inside he was a noble person.
Usually Spaghetti western lovers donât like this type of hero, or film.
But during the fifties the western hero changed: he became more Freudian, uncertain, even psychotic at times: not necessarily bad, but morally ambiguous. This type of western hero was epitomized by Jimmy Stewart in Anthony Mannâs westerns. Spaghetti western buffs usually like them, and they also like morally ambiguous films like High Noon, 3.10 to YUMA, The searchers, Ulzanaâs raid, The Wild Bunch, even an early one like Fort Apache ⌠and of course Clintâs movies, starting from Hang 'm high.
The SW hero did not what he did because he felt a moral obligation to do it, but because he was a bad mood, because he was greedy, or because he was angry âŚ
I like both American and Spaghetti westerns.
The style, music, gunplay and storylines in Spaghetti westerns are more to my taste.
My favourite American westerns are the gritty and/or violent types, and prefer them more than the slapstick style Spaghetti westerns.
As I stated 100s of times these so called âcriticsâ like
Loser Halliwell, Peasant French and similar lobotomised specimens have a serious
brain/taste deficiency that makes them automatically praise abysmal, dull, trash dramas
and at the same time dismiss/condemn the HIGHEST QUALITY SWs/Giallos/Horror/Scifi
Much of these twisted âcriticsâ abominable/biased bad/unfair taste comes from a sick
moral corruption deep within their own degenerate private lives. It is very sad to have
to read their miserable non âreviewsâ and we should all PROTEST IN MASS when
we spot another terribly wrong, biased, odious âreviewâ against a great classic film.
Concerning SWs against Conventional USA mostly Westerns
I am a devoted fan of SWs/Euro Westerns , from the best GBU 1966 to the minor SWs.
I am extremely annoyed/upset when anyone tries to dismiss/malign âminor SWsâ as
even these âlesser knownâ SWs are very meritous, exciting, well cast/directed and
vastly superior to most of the recent âoscarâ winners from 1974 to 2007.
I am also a devoted fan of classic Westerns (USA) mostly from 1950s/1960s/1970s
HANG EM HIGH 68, FIRECREEK 68 , FIVE CARD STUD 68 , BANDOLERO 68.
Also all time classics MAGNIFICENT SEVEN 60, HIGH NOON 52 , SEARCHERS 56
If its a WESTERN with violent revenge themes, sadism, nihilism, humanity, music
then I tend to LIKE IT /LOVE IT and want it on DVD.
I am glad to see this thread. Iâll be brutally honest I am not a fan of the clean cut images in 99% of US Westerns. I was drawn to the Pastas for the following reasons:
- Realistic violence and bloodshed
- Anti-heros
- Not every movie has a happy ending
- Better use of exterior locations (I need to visit Almeria)
- Better use of local talent (how many times do we need to see a white man play a Comanche!)
- Less reliance on a love interest and love triangles.
that being said I do not dislike all US Westerns - Magnificent Seven and The Wild Bunch are two of my favorites. John Wayne on the other hand does nothing for me. His movies may be great but to me theyâre just fluff.
I like some American westerns, but not so much. There are masterpiecesâŚ
The Wild Bunch - one of my absolute favorites.
Pat Garrett an Billy the Kid - so sad⌠so bitterly⌠and so beautiful.
The Magnificent Seven - good western with cool characters.
Butch Cassidy - funny and nice, with young Redford⌠melts
High Noon - it would be better if Gary Cooper would die (after he defeated the bad guys) - but it has a very great athmosphere.
Tombstone - Iâve seen it long time ago, but I liked it very much.
Good one! I did like this one as well.
Tombstone was overlong for me.
[quote=âFrankTalby, post:51, topic:709â]I am glad to see this thread. Iâll be brutally honest I am not a fan of the clean cut images in 99% of US Westerns. I was drawn to the Pastas for the following reasons:
- Realistic violence and bloodshed
- Anti-heros
- Not every movie has a happy ending
- Better use of exterior locations (I need to visit Almeria)
- Better use of local talent (how many times do we need to see a white man play a Comanche!)
- Less reliance on a love interest and love triangles.
that being said I do not dislike all US Westerns - Magnificent Seven and The Wild Bunch are two of my favorites. John Wayne on the other hand does nothing for me. His movies may be great but to me theyâre just fluff.[/quote]
I agree with all.
Have you ever seen The Shooting and Ride In The Whirlwind (both by Monte Hellman)?
These are two of my favorite American westernsâŚ
Did you even attempt to watch the self indulgent Wyatt Earp starring Kevin âI take myself too seriouslyâ Kostner?
[quote=âFrankTalby, post:51, topic:709â]I am glad to see this thread. Iâll be brutally honest I am not a fan of the clean cut images in 99% of US Westerns. I was drawn to the Pastas for the following reasons:
- Realistic violence and bloodshed
- Anti-heros
- Not every movie has a happy ending
- Better use of exterior locations (I need to visit Almeria)
- Better use of local talent (how many times do we need to see a white man play a Comanche!)
- Less reliance on a love interest and love triangles.
that being said I do not dislike all US Westerns - Magnificent Seven and The Wild Bunch are two of my favorites. John Wayne on the other hand does nothing for me. His movies may be great but to me theyâre just fluff.[/quote]
Agree with you 100 percent. You can add great music and sense of atmosphere to your list. For some reason or another, American westerns, even the good ones, lack good musical scores.
Damn I totally overlooked that one. Youâre dead on too. The music in 99% of SW adds so much more to the movie.
Yes I have to agreeâŚvery self indulgent.
and extremely slow in getting off the ground. That movie is one of the many reasons I love SW.