Re: Are Spaghetti Westerns Exploitation Movies?

[Silence]

@Bad Lieutenant

I´ve seen dozens of WIP and Nazisploitation films and all of them are badly made, some horrible even, merely relying on shock effect, boobs, sadistisc prison guards, lesbianism and of course Nazis. That’s exploitation for ya.

And that’s the way it should be in Explotation ;D.

[John_Welles]

@Bad Lieutenant

All films exploit subject matter. Therefore all films are exploitation. And if this is true, the opposite must also be true. In other words: There is no such thing as exploitation. People tend to use the term however to describe sleazy movies. So, sleaze = exploitation. The few spaghetti’s that are sleazy are therefore exploitation, the rest is not.

I had to re-read this twice to grasp your meaning. But I don’t think people always think of exploitation equeling sleeze. They think of them more as cheap, brutal movies. So, A Fistful of Dollars is cheap (even if Leone made it so the cheapness was in keeping with the ghost town) and definatly brutal, therefore A Fistful of Dollars is exploitation.

[Silence]

Have you seen any WIP films John? Perfect example of Explotation.

[John_Welles]

@Silence

Have you seen any WIP films John?

No, I don’t really like the sound of those types of films from what I’ve read about them. Anyhow, how come a twelve year old watches them? Ah, how the “yoof” of today has fallen… (Eyes mist over).

[Silence]

@John Welles

Anyhow, how come a twelve year old watches them?

Don’t ask me :D!

[Phil_H]

@John Welles

I had to re-read this twice to grasp your meaning. But I don’t think people always think of exploitation equeling sleeze. They think of them more as cheap, brutal movies. So, A Fistful of Dollars is cheap (even if Leone made it so the cheapness was in keeping with the ghost town) and definatly brutal, therefore A Fistful of Dollars is exploitation.

I’ve kept out of this discussion because I suspect it will wind up going round and round in circles but I’ve weakened and am putting my two cents in.

I think I know what BL means by ‘sleaze’. It doesn’t neccesarily just mean sex but any gratuitous content. So sex for sex sake. Violence for violence sake. Gore for gore sake. No discernable context or narrative neccesity for it. Just in there to excite or titlilate.

In that context I completely agree with BL. There are a few spags which might fall into this category, especially late on in the cycle when producers were desperate to find an audience for their micro budget features. But most were not merely gratuitous in my opinion and Leone’s certainly not. Not even FoD. Their’s is a violent world but not a gratuitously or ‘sleazy’ one.

[Bad_Lieutenant]

A Fistful of Dollars had a budget of $200.000
Sure, cheaper than an American western. But Fidani would have shot 10 movies for that sum, and recycled them into 20 more. Besides that, I don’t see anything extraordinarily brutal about that film. Moreover, it’s a critically acclaimed film.

Edit, Yes, Phil. Well put.

[Silence]

Yes well put Phil. Blindman could be called and Westplotation prehaps?

[John_Welles]

@Phil H

But most were not merely gratuitous in my opinion and Leone’s certainly not. Not even FoD. Their’s is a violent world but a gratuitously or ‘sleazy’ one.

But didn’t people, when they came out originaly, go to see them simply because they were violant to the extream (for the time), the exact oppersit of American westerns of the time (until The Wild Bunch).

@Bad Lieutenant

Besides that, I don’t see anything extraordinarily brutal about that (A Fistful of Dollars) film. Moreover, it’s a critically acclaimed film.

Tell the fact that A Fistful of Dollars isn’t brutal to Lindberg. But the film wasn’t “criticaly acclaimed” until years (decades?) later. It was denounced as “sick” by most reviewers at the time.

[Silence]

There are lots of sicker SWs.

[John_Welles]

@Silence

There are lots of sicker SWs.

I know, but A Fistful of Dollars was the first, and back in 1964 there weren’t any “sicker” movies about.

[Silence]

Well 66 isn’t so far away. Don’t think FOD was more accepted two years after.

[autephex]

Bad Lieutenant and Phil have both made some excellent points and have pretty much summed up my thoughts about the subject better than I was able to.

And I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but it sounds like you haven’t really seen any known exploitation films John, as in films that are without a doubt exploitation. Perhaps you should watch some of them and then see what you think about what is and isn’t exploitation.

[Silence]

99 Women is a good WIP film.

[Silvanito]

I think this whole board is sort of ‘Silenceploitation’, spamming every thread all the time

That’s really sleazy

[Silvanito]

And btw, a true exploitation SW would be something like:

[size=2]DJANGO HOLOCAUST[/size]

[autephex]

@Lindberg

[size=2]DJANGO HOLOCAUST[/size]

Would pay good money to see this

[Silence]

Me too! And I would pay even more for watching a Silenceplotation ;D.

[ENNIOO]

Cool title !