If it is really a VHS from 1984, definitely yes.
I remember the cover, the tape I rented when I lived in Antwerp in the 1980s had exactly the same one. It was in PAL though. Definitely the theatrical version. I had never seen another version until the Turner Version was shown on TV, I think by the BBC, in the early 90s
The preview did not surface before the late 80s, but then often replaced the theatrical one completely.
John, what do you think now about the film and the versions?
I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned it but this is my favorite western from US. And it’s weird that I didn’t like it when I saw it for the first time, maybe I saw two different versions.
Btw, which version is the one that is most regularly available as dvd’s?
The usual version is a 2-disc set with the 2005 version on the first disc and the 1988 TCM preview cut on the second disc.
Most people seem prefer the TCM preview cut. However, a few people (Stanton being one of them) seem to prefer the 2005 version. For me it is night and day. While I respect Seydor and loved reading his book on the matter, I mostly refuse to watch the 2005 version except for comparative purposes. I feel like the 2005 version probably has Peckinpah turning in his grave. However, that is just my opinion of course.
Yes same cover to the U.K pre cert vhs from the early 80’s:
Why should he?
When the preview version needed to be fine cut, and the theatrical version (in which the film was already a masterpiece for me) was obvisly too short, the 2005 cut seems to be the closest to a theatrical release supervised by Peckinpah.
I think the only really debatable things in the 2005 version is the use of the theatrical credit sequence and that the narrative circle isn’t closed by returning to the time level of the first scene.
And some of the extra violence would not hurt.
But on the other hand the 2005 cut does a lot of things right. The scene in which Garrett slaps a whore for liking Billy is important, the raft scene works much better when put earlier, the vocals for Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door makes this already strong scene even more powerful and beautiful, the bad bunkhouse scene is thankfully out and several of the minor cuts improve the film’s inner rhythm.
Some good stuff is of course also missing, but that’s the nature of every fine cut, that some good scenes, shots, or parts of scenes have to be sacrificed for the film’s good.
The bunkhouse scene should have stayed, and so should have the longer meeting between Pat and the coffin-maker. I’m unsure as to why these were cut. The 2005 Cut does work, if you ignore the existence of the Preview Version, but seeing as it only represents a best-guess version, it doesn’t have any particular legitimacy. For some reason, it’s main working premise is that where the Theatrical and Preview cuts diverge, the former should be prioritised over the latter (see the credits and framing narrative). That’s not to say Seydor doesn’t make some improvements, such as cutting the opening conversation between Pat and Billy better, but I feel like the Preview cut is still the one to watch.
But this bunkhouse scene is the only scene which does not feature Pat or Billy, and for that it needs a very good reason to justify its including, otherwise it is an odd impurity in the film’s narrative structure.
So far nobody could give me an explanation how this scene could justify its deviation from the film’s point of view.
I don’t care much about a legitimation, especially as long as neither version represents a definite version of Peckinpah, and I care for the one in which the film works best. Actually if I had to chose between the theatrical and the preview version, I probably would take the one from 1973.
And the 2005 version is, according to Seydor, one which was created by Warner, and Warner wasn’t interested to put too much money in the restoration, so they took the theatrical one and added the missing scenes (except the one), and only the Prologue was newly cut.
But on the other hand this version represents very much Seydor’s ideas already uttered in his Peckinpah book. So calling it a Seydor cut is not wrong either.
Outside of the very obvious removal of the beautiful bookended credits (this one still blows my mind) and the shortening of the scene when Billy and Garrett first meet (really odd decision IMO), here are some of the editing decisions that I find particularly troublesome in the 2005 edition as opposed to the Turner Preview edition:
Outhouse scene: The replacement of the shot of the bucking horses when Billy walks out to the outhouse with a shot of Billy walking through some pigs. While the shot of him walking through the pigs is a nicer image, the shot of the horses ties in well with the following shot of the horses in a much calmer state immediately after Billy exits the outhouse. The horse shots bookend the outhouse sequence well and it’s great how they are frantic before Billy retrieves the gun in the outhouse but then calm down once he exits as if representing the calm before the storm.
Cockfighting scene: The cockfighting scene when the flurry of feathers transitions to the shot of the guy being rounded up by Garrett on his horse is far better in the complete Preview version than in the shortened Special Edition.
River scene: In the Turner Preview, there is a nice audio transition from the song being sung in the outpost scene to Garrett sitting on the bank as if the lyrics to the song are in his thoughts. In the 2005 Special Edition, while there is a nice additional shot setting the scene before we focus on Garrett, the cut from the preceding scene (now the one with Billy and Alias fending off Chisum’s regulators) is abrupt. We also lose a final shot in that scene that focuses on Billy’s face almost as if in slow-motion. It’s a great shot that adds a quiet tranquility to the end of the scene that then transitions beautifully to the scene with Garrett cooking his food on the frying pan.
Brothel scene: In the Turner Preview version, the owner of the brothel/saloon knocks a glass over and this transitions beautifully into one of the prostitutes turning the hourglass over. In the Special Edition we lose this nice transition because the Ruthie Lee scene has been added before it. Instead we get a decent audio transition from the sound of the glass being knocked over to the sound of Ruthie Lee knocking on Garrett’s door, but it is not as strong as the original.
I find the Turner version almost poetic in its editing and transitions; I personally feel the 2005 edition loses this.
But this is all minor stuff, and as I said fine cutting mostly also means to lose some good stuff.
The Ruthie Lee scene is much more important than this transition piece, and the river scene works for me much better at the earlier place of the film. Actually I can’t believe that it ever was placed so late in the film, cause it is important that it comes earlier, before Garrett hardens more and more inside.
There are of course some small bits which could be changed in the 2005 cut, some small bits could maybe added, but all in all most of the material which is gone is in favour of the film’s flow and rhythm.
Only the credits and the missing framing shot are really problematic in the 2005 version.
Major for me 
It all adds up over the length of the picture.
OK Novecento, but do you have an idea why there is one scene which does not feature Pat nor Billy?
Every film has a point of view, and when the film breaks that point of view, the film should have a damn fine reason for that.
I take your point, but I guess I’ve just never felt that to be a big deal.
“When are you gonna learn you can’t trust anybody - not even yourself, Garrett? You chicken-shit, badge-wearing son of a bitch”
1988 version FOREVER!
Any fan versions out there?
No need - we have the 1988 Turner preview version. All we need now is a nice remastered Blu-ray release of it.
Having said that, I’d want a lot of extras on the Blu-ray including any of the stuff from the 1973 theatrical cut that wasn’t in the 1988 preview cut (I believe most or almost all of this is included in the 2005 Seydor cut) along with this scene from the 1975 CBS Broadcast TV cut (and any others if they exist):
No what we need is a box which contains all 3 now known versions in remastered HD quality. And hopefully a 4th disc with the Stanton cut, the one for a better world.
Shouldn’t there be four versions then:
1973 Theatrical Cut
1975 CBS Broadcast Cut
1988 Turner Preview Cut
2005 Seydor Cut
In terms of Peckinpah’s legacy, I would be upset if anyone watched anything but the 1988 Turner Preview Cut first. I know you like the 2005 cut, but you are in a minority and the only thing that can be called “Peckinpah’s cut” is the 1988 one