Mystery of railway station esperanza/navajo joe

Totally agree with you last contribution… In the meantime if you like trains from the films then click here…https://www.facebook.com/pg/ferrocarrilenandalucia/photos/?tab=album&album_id=953694854703251&xts%5B0%5D=68.ARCIzsClEuBVWZM3st3ufAZoP2NWK4-IHUlPgy-cAbREfXzo038DwNPVsoEUa8XBgYikYcRQlP8exDnuEinivnSAFTvUl_9gdBjFjUCCMQixGFpviDnThSsNiKVFjnnaO-hj1kqA0n9P9q0UAD2V054YcSdHvpPXep1jTpjCAiqFkH3oEznv2h8AH9vEnfyuF4fCZqwPSqHsBBmwlq4OTmqp_9iZmhmRW8VNKY8XrFf61UlvPhx7gEW-MNPsUuyevhHTfoDuVXBIrrgUTPNJUw7X7R1mpPVpnaN10x8eW7vyyGHkHrdln1qhdkjS-w&tn=-UK-R

Tucumcari… Best station in the world lol…Gone now but nice to have stood in its position of old… I think the land is for sale so when i win the euromillion plus then we will create and re-instate Tucumcari to its original look with a steam train… But for now in my dreams. ha ha

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I can’t wait to see that - but don’t forget, ‘Cattle Corner’, from ‘Once Upon a Time in the West’, is on the opposite side of the track … that station rebuilt would be a thing of beauty, but we’d need to get rid of those damned windmills polluting the view. :smiley:

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And some money. lol.:laughing:

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Thank you, there are en extremely large number of fotos of railways, stations etc from the “real world” and movies on El Ferrocarril en Andalucia and I have been looking at all I can. Very very nice old fotos.

We still lack a foto at or near Piñar station from around 1966 or so showing postes telegraficos so we could either completely eliminate or increase the probability for that station to have been the location for ESPERANZA station.
Since if the configuration of the telegraph poles is different (not 4 x 2 vertical) from that in the movie then the probability must be close to cero.
On the other hand IF they match the probability is very much increased (from my personal intuitive view now of 20-50 % to a lot over 50 %) and there nearly has to be an acceptable explanation for the differences in back ground hill view.

El Ferrocarril en Andalucia gave this link to a june 2010 photo https://tinyurl.com/y4oqlkzx

At least it shows, as also I have seen from a"Pachecos" foto, that it can be very green near Piñar station at least i june.

My wife post-directed the not (yet?) so famous “Searching for Esperanza” movie starring the Runner as himself last autumn (with mostly Swedish subtitles) with her then several days old fotos as a source. Any new clues there ?

It is best viewed in full screen mode.


Edit May 19th .

@pedro_james This hombre Manuel Paz Paz lived at the station around 1964-1966 !
"Yo tendría alrededor de siete años y vivía en la estación de Piñar"

So he might be interviewed about if he could remember if a movie has been recorded ,“Joe El Implacable” - Navajo Joe, at the station around 1966 !
Does he remember when the current station buildings were constructed ?

ETC

I,ve been in touch with Manuel and he assures me that the film was not made at PINAR station… He says he lived there and the film was not there. So the case is still wide open.

His reply was… The station had at least three ways. There was not a siding to the right of the station as the one you see in the photo, the station was smaller, the marquee covered the entire front of the station, there was not a ridge so high behind, the doors and windows were not white…

Runner Manuels reply was this… The station had at least three ways. There was
not a siding to the right of the station as the one you see in the photo, the station was smaller, the marquee covered the entire front of the station, there was not a ridge so high behind, the doors and windows were not white…

Thank you @pedro_james for contacting him !
Yes, his answer must rule out Piñar from now on with a VERY HIGH probability (but not a full 100 %) - at least for the location of the station house, but most likely also for the location of the approaching train (if it was not advanced editing of the film (which do occur sometimes in SW) AND manipulation of background hills which at least taken together seem unlikely.)


The telegraph poles with 8 nodes (4 x 2 vertically) are still very special clues, but where were there such a configuration along a railway ?

The very broad and rather smooth flat distant green hills are another peculiarity, seldom or never seen in Andalucia including Granada and Almeria I think. Hills there are more “rocky” in my experience and probably also mostly elsewhere in Spain,

But Nicoletta Machiavelli has been quoted I think according to you @pedro_james to remember the location as within an hour or so from Guadix…

The french web site movie still showing Nicoletta et al and part of the station and the tracks with some background including the flat hills was stated to have been from Andalucia spring 1966, which might be according to a reliable (film company ?) source.

But I have tried to look for stations and tracks on Google 2D-3D in (mostly?) all of Andalucia with no other really hot candidate. Arriate near Ronda is a scarce possible double track candidate if not for the lack of smooth distant hills and several other details.

So the mystery of ESPERANZA is live as ever and the hunt may continue :slight_smile: .

I just finished my (at least) third Google-viaje along Guadix - Alicante existing and abandoned railways, and I think the probability of a suitable railway station or just suitable railway tracks or even just suitable back ground hills is near zero.

Also once more looked at Moreda - Madrid, and near Colmenar Viejo, but no observation of promising station, railway or hills.

Thus ESPERANZA location should be sought elsewhere.


I just stumbled on an interesting Malaga-Coin railway photo from April 1962 where the telegraph poles seem to be matching with those of ESPERANZA.

https://tinyurl.com/y62o6bdb

That abandoned line I haven’t studied that much.

Hi Runner… Thanks again for your input… What a tough nut to crack this one… Scratching my head… Where do we go from here lol. I,ve had several messages from Manuel who,s memory appears brilliant and he says he is sure its not Esperanza… I cant remember
… Did you say some streets we,re named after some of the actors or am i getting mixed up with Albericoque Almeria shoot out with Lee Van Cleef. If some streets we,re named in Pinar then we have a problem lol.

No you are correct, but there are several Esperanza streets in Andalucia or at least in Almeria , also in Piñar pueblo as you can see here https://tinyurl.com/yy4saoas

So the relevance of that is probably very low.

About the Malaga - Coin line, in my earlier message, that is very near “my” district and there are probably no hills there that resemble those distant hills of ESPERANZA.

Runner… Your the expert google map man… check out ESTACION DE ARCHIDONA MALAGA for us please… This station has similarities to Burt Reynolds leaving in front of the train until the A92 was bored through the station… Can,t find photo of train on curve
coming into station with guessing burt reynolds horse by train… check the curve and mountain to the right please… Pedro

It is A-7201 that crosses through near the Archidona station. The railway tracks on both sides bend in the wrong direction. The background hills match poorly. There is a ridge on one side but probable bigger or longer than the one on the opposite side of ESPERANZA station building.

I have google-traveled here along this line before but found nothing exciting so far.

But it is nevertheless interesting to google-travel and rule out candidates.

Ok … Thanks for looking… Pedro

I have seen 2 fotos from around 1960’s on the fantastic Ferrocarril Andalucia web site with the wished 8 telegraph poles somewhere on the line Malaga-Coin. But since the sideway to Coin was abandoned around 1965, and the rails removed around 1966, and the former railway more or less is built over by new streets etc it is hard to follow the former line on Google. Anyhow I cannot find any promising smooth, even hills/mountains in the Malaga-Coin-area so that area is probably not a hot one.

The other day I took a new Google-trip along the abandoned line northeast of Cabra, Cordoba but no candidate was discovered.


In general the trees seen on the background hills at ESPERANZA appear to be more or less all over the hills, even at the top. But the hills seem darker green with less white spots compared to many undulating hills with olive trees in Andalucia.
I wonder if there were only olive trees at the hills at ESPERANZA or also other tree types.

Here is a practical map of southern Spanish railways (1918). The tracks at ESPERANZA looked rather old in 1966 so if it was located there one should be able to find out somewhere there :slight_smile: I have probably NOT (yet at least) google-traveled along ALL these lines, but most likely a majority.
https://tinyurl.com/yxpqh7eg

Here is a mountain/hilly view some 40 kilometers west of Valencia that is maybe rather unusual example of the wished type of terrain that is rather smoth hill contours with a lot of trees making a dark greeen appearance and NOT just well structured olive trees which leaves som lighter ground visible.
So it might be worth looking more closely at the several different railways leaving Valencia.

https://tinyurl.com/yxsbdykx

Having done that now I conclude that there is no complete match with ESPERANZA but Rebollar along the old Valencia - Utiel line had a few interesting features including double track + a third only reaching the platform with its the station buildings on the same side as ESPERANZA and a promising slope behind which itself could match, see link below.
But probably no stony ridge on the opposite side, definitely too long straight railways before bending and a hill background not enough smooth and even rule this station out.
Otherwise the terrain type and vegetation looked OK since it is situated some 40-50 kilometers west of Valencia.

https://tinyurl.com/y67nw9uu


Another Map Amigo.