Mystery of railway station esperanza/navajo joe

I conclude that there must have been severe manipulation (if possible) in the movie background IF it was shot at Piñar.

OK guys… Unless someone comes forward sooner rather than later when i have time ESPERANZA is only 30 mins or so away… Up to my neck in it work wise but will visit the hogar pensionista and council office… All we need is someone in sound mind with age to say yes it was the station in question. Although deep down i feel it is PINAR but cannot understand the need for manipulation. We must all keep on the case… Pedro

1 Like

Some more brave than I should once more try to contact Tanya Lopert from Navajo Joe around her birthday June 19 (77 years old that day) . Why not Aldo who I have seen in another forum thread has been involved in film making in Almeria and should know how to approach the people in that business !

1 Like

I’m afraid the few contacts I had are now exhausted - A friend and dedicated location fan/hunter was in contact with assistant director, Ruggero Deodato who couldn’t remember the precise area … nor could Nicoletta Machiavelli or Lucio Rosato, (who played Jeffrey, Aldo Sambrell’s brother) … who we met at 2 separate western festivals in Tabernas.

It’s probably asking too much, that actors or crew will remember an exact film location more than 50 years ago. I worked in theatre for several years in the mid 1980s, and I can’t remember all the plays, let alone actors names from that time.

Yes I understand, well mysteries also have their charm (as in High Plains Drifter ?) :slight_smile:

1 Like

Sorry wrong thread reply

Back to Esperanza Station… Please make the effort and follow any leads that come to mind… Pedro

Loose thoughts : On the Facebook El Ferrocarril website a picture from near Iznalloz 1965 is interesting since it shows caracteristic probably “randomly” spread trees (olive ?) in the terrain that look rather similar to at least one particular movie scene which I viewed some hours ago. On the opposite side of the ESPERANZA station building some distance away a bit up in the background you also can see similar tree “configuration” in that scene. Nowadays the corresponding Iznalloz view has changed to systematic olive tree plantation. See also the comments with fotos on this link.

https://tinyurl.com/y3ykkuat

By this I want to remind of the terrain/vegatation/flora angle .
However in Colmenar Viejo there are some oke trees on fotos which also may look rather similar.

From the Ferrocarril site once more, this shows that the telegraph poles at the line Granada-Moreda at Albolote also had 8 nodes (as I have seen before around 1960 or so at Iznalloz and Bogarre) but the time more important 1966. But those were configurated 2 times 4 horisontal as opposed 4 times 2 vertical at ESPERANZA. But at least seldom 8 nodes has been seen elsewhere as far as I know in Almeria and Granada at the actual time. So for some reason if Piñar is the answer they looked different there but still 8 nodes.

The first foto from Deifontes from 1984 shows expanded/doubled nodes to 16 and the second foto from 1988 shows the more or less identical configuration at Piñar,

So in THIS case, that is at that time, the telegraph poles matched each others, so the question still remains was there only a numerical match 1966 with the ESPERANZA type configuration (4 x 2 vertical) - which seems technically possible with the same number of nodes (8), or is it just a “wild goose chase” here :wink:


Blimmin heck Runner… Does,nt take much to get a Cornishman confused but i have problem in the grey matter now… Where is the station with the signal in and where is the station with train in and snow on the mountain…:cowboy_hat_face:

The “snowy” foto is from Albolote north/northwest of Granada and the “signal-foto” is some 150-200 meters or so west-northwest of Piñar in direction of Iznalloz but photo view in opposite direction of course.

You see a building on the latter foto to the left of the tracks which is claimed to have been burned down (according to comments on the Ferrocarril site).


There is an interresting debate in the comments to this foto on the Ferrocarril site, about if the foto is from P but I say it isn’t and so does a few others.
It is said to be from 1960’s and shows a unusual telegraph pole with 5 or 6 vertical nodes on the same side. I would therefore guess it is a foto from totally elsewere… https://tinyurl.com/yxcpnscd

Ooops the following picture said just that - from Estación de Pedrera, lado La Roda - somewhere between Malaga and Sevilla :slight_smile:

150-200 meters or so west-northwest of Piñar in direction of Iznalloz but photo view in opposite direction of course… I,ve studied this photo for quite a while… I would not put my life on it but thats not PINAR( not got Spanish computer so cant put the accent over the P in PINAR).

It is according to the Ferrocarril site (which sometimes is wrong)
The comment says “ESTACIÓN DE PIÑAR
Locomotora 333-045 con tren de viajeros procedente de Granada, rebasando la señal de entrada a la estación.
Fecha: 18 de Septiembre de 1988.
Foto: Ahrend01”

https://tinyurl.com/y4w3scp9

When I studied this photo last summer or autumn I was a bit unsure about the distant hill topography (behind the telegraph pole), but I assume this picture is from P.
You see a little little glimpse of the green nearby hill northeast/east of the station.

The white building to the right can be seen at https://tinyurl.com/y4k42gob but the left building is said to have burnt down.

But appears to be single track/via…strange unless its my eyes.

Yes, but it should be single track at that point at the west/northwest of “our” Piñar station. The picture must have been taken near the most “left-ish” part of the tracks in the image in the link below.

This Googlemaps-link below shows that the railway tracks converge from 3 tracks to 1 track between around 20-40 meters west (left in the image) of the CURRENT most “west-ish” Piñar station building on the north side of the tracks.

This has also been a slight problem for ESPERANZA - P relation, but maybe the ESPERANZA station building was located not only on the other side of course but maybe also more to the east/southeast say 20-40 meters or so. That might have been in correlation with the rather far away view of the straight forward double railway tracks you see in forward train direction of the Esperanza station in some scenes in the movie.

But surely it IS a lot of “IFs” for the Piñar theory to evolve into an established truth :slight_smile:

https://tinyurl.com/yykevh8m

A photo at Piñar station (including buildings, telegraph poles etc) from around 1960-1966 would be HIGHLY appreciated !

I had a look a google maps from different angles around Pinar station last night and compared to the DVD shots from outside and inside the station house - I found it hard to rule in or out Pinar as the same location.

The comparison shot above with Joe on the train looks convincing. It seems that the location of a shot, the height the shot is taken from and the amount of zoom all give differing perspectives.
Here is the same location as above taken on google maps on the road to the east of the station - the area to the left of Joe’s head on the earlier shot looks close to the google image?

It sure is.

There are several ressemblances in overall terrain, railway tracks, the background hilly view with Joe on the train, the distant green hill on the opposite side of the station house and the 8 nodes of the telegraph poles which taken together seem more than a coincidence makes it a very interesting candidate.
But on the other hand there are problems about the “non-rocky” smooth even background hills in the movie when the train arrives, and lack of hills in the distant background behind the ESPERANZA station house and the stony elevated tiny hill opposite but close to the station. Especially the first one is hard to explain if not by some kind of manipulation in the movie.

A true correctly estimated probability for Piñar to be the location for ESPERANZA, with current knowledge published in this thread, I would guess/feel NOW to be somewhere between let say 20-50 % IF it hypotetically would be possible to translate the probability into not too inexact mathematically derived numbers.

With this I would like to conclude that Piñar is the best candidate so far, but that it definitely cannot be ruled out that the location is totally somewhere else, maybe far away and the probabilty for that thus feels to be 50-80 % now…

I have been thinking about it for years lol… So frustrating… I wish i never took up the challenge Amigos

The movie shots from ESPERANZA and photos from Piñar area in messages 118 and 120 above should in my THEORY be better analyzed by some intelligent computer software if it existed. There are some visible and probably many more fine structures etc on the pictures that maybe such a software could analize better than at least my eyes.