Mystery of railway station Esperanza/Navajo Joe SOLVED!

Hi Runner… I came across this Website… Nightmare looking at it. I,ve just started looking at Colmenar vieja line/area… This site appears to have list of stations around that area but some or many now gone/stations in ruins… When you have time look at todays vias/lines and try to find any clues from Colmenar… Nightmares lol. https://miestacion.es/linea/423/C4b_Parla__Atocha-Sol-Chamartin__Cantoblanco__Colmenar_Viejo.html

I believe I have googletravelled along that line before, but why not once again just to make sure :slight_smile:

No I couldn’t find anything interesting there. In general there are no appropriate background hills and was probably too many buildings etc near Madrid. The Colmenar Viejo train station seems to be the least unsuitable candidate that I have seen fairly near Madrid but it do not match in several aspects.

If ESPERANZA exists one thinks that it would appear on some of the tens of thousands of photos of ferrocarril on several different Facebook web sites that I follow nowadays, not just from Andalucia, but no luck so far.

My way of tackling this is usually that one photo of maybe several hundreds looks interesting enough to examine closer on Google Maps. So far probably hundreds of ESPERANZA possible candidates have been ruled out…


Here a little to the left is another correctly configurated telegraph pole (4 x 2 vertical) in Alcoy, Alicante. So there are at least 3 locations with such telegraph poles in the south east of Spain with the other 2 in Murcia. I estimate/guess by my experience that less than in the order 1 of 100 photos with telegraph poles at stations is correctly configurated thats is as at ESPERANZA. Therefore these 3 examples might be a little hint or even clue in what direction we should look for ESPERANZA.

I,m the same as yourself and keep studying the 100,s of photos that appear on facebook Ferrocarril… once in a while( not very often) you think yeeeeeeee similarities then back to earth. :anguished:. Nothing from here and no replies from what started off as promising contacts but we are in Lockdown still in GRANADA . Up and onwards lol

It is convinient that some via verdes have Google street view, for instance along parts of the abandonded Gandia - Alcoy line. I think the vegetation is slightly promising thereabouts and in a few angles the hills are OK, but mostly not. It would be thrilling if you could find the ESPERANZA location on a via verde in Andalucia or nearby (Murcia, Valencia).

The search goes on… Maybe after lockdown we have a break through lol. ( In our dreams).
Its a pity we don,t have more numbers on the case… It rules more things in or out… Cheers for now

Just after we had visited Luque I Google-viewed the Moriles-Horcajo station also along El Tren de Aceite and at the edge of the pueblo Navas del Selpillar, and it seems to have decent background hills and fine green undulating cultivated ground on the corresponding “ESPERANZA station building side” without disturbing mountains.

A slight problem was the trees along the railway at the station, but the could be planted later.
But this photo from a Facebook web site from 1984 shows there were not much disturbing items in the corresponding “train arriving to ESPERANZA direction” .
The biggest problem is on the opposite of the corresponding ESPERANZA train station. But the photo does not reveal that. Now there for example is a football ground, but how old is it ? They might have taken away the corresponding ESPERANZA “stony ridge” to build the court after 1966.

Interesting is also that on GoogleMaps it appears that it could have been a double railway track even if the photo from 1984 only shows one track but that was just after the railway was closed and I have noticed elsewhere that an old double track sometimes is reduced to a single track.

Unfortunately the 1984 photo shows telegraph poles on the wrong side of the railway and with singleside configuration so they must be newer than 1966 to be at the real ESPERANZA location. Also it is unclear if there is a visible green hill at the corresponding “opposite” side of ESPERANZA station building" in correct angle.
Anyhow the background distant hills look promising on the photo and maybe the hill seen to the left of the house (which exists on google) on the photo could be the sought after green hill not so far away.

It’s a pity we didn’t visit the location when we were in the neighbourhood last autumn !

This photo contradicts the Google view of a possible double railway track in the direction of the corresponding “arriving train at ESPERANZA including the curve”.

Another source states it is from Gandia near the coast (but from the same abandonded Gandia - Alcoy line)

Thanks for continued support in trying to solve Esperanza…Caught a glimpse of Estacion FUENTELCESPED on Ferrocarrill…Thought for split second Bingo… Expect you saw it as well lol

No I hadn’t seen it, or not remembered. I searched now for FUENTELCESPED on Facebook and only found a couple of photos, for example one on the site i have watched most time lately which is Marcha A La Vista which seems to have 10 times more photos (than El Ferrocarril en Andalucia) from probably all of Spain and there I just now watched a photo of the station. Honestly I found not so much interesting there since the angle was not perfect but neither at Googlemaps regarding tracks configuration.

But the hunt continues :slight_smile:

Your the expert on Google maps Amigo… Think lucky just like the Gypsy and be lucky lol.Upwards and onwards lol. Take care

I try to call the real location experts for help :

Relevant comparing search example ? :

About two weeks ago I started to wonder and trying to remember the name of a disappeared short road near my home around 1970’s. But it was lost in my memory. After that I started carefully studying hundreds of files of property sales in that village that covered the 1910’s and 1920’s (compare with thousands of photos of hundreds of southern Spain railway stations). Interestingly I found 25 roads there that had changed names or in a few cases even disappeared. I also come to learn the ancient names of dozens of the blocks and was eager to solve the block-road puzzle which I did to over 90 %.
Unfortunately all this obtained knoweldge didn’t lead to the mystery name of the little road in question but I understood that it was not constructed until 1930’s or even later.

But yesterday I got an answer a village employee (mail question sent around 2 weeks ago). He mailed an internal village property street map from 1979 which finally solved that mystery.

My conclusion or hint is that actively contacting the Navajo Joe production companies (or remains of them regarding company files etc) may with some luck be a more efficient way to find the ESPERANZA location even if in our case the surrounding nature, topography and/or railway tracks hopefully should be out there somewhere and not completely disappeared thus providing another way to solve the mystery albeit so far in vain.

I have been into reasoning regarding shadows before, but maybe not as thoroughly as here :

In the first Navajo Joe scene with a longdistance shot of the railway tracks and background hills shot from the ESPERANZA station (around 31.24 min into my bluray) the shadows of the people on the platform might indicate that such a shot along the tracks is coming from northeast and directed to southwest or so, but only IF the sun comes from the south that is near the middle of the day, let’s say around 10-12 AM. The latter seems reasonable due to the brightness and rather short shadows, or up to hours before that which is in the late morning.
When the train with Joe is arriving in a later scene the shadowsin one special shot of the people on the platform( 34.17 min bluray) are totally different. The completely shadowed people on the platform now indicate that the sun comes from the other side of the train/train/station maybe in the order of “120 degrees of angle” later in a day, or around 8 hours later at 6-8 PM. So it suggests that the sun might have come from somewhere near west or west/northwest. I think this is also compatible with the light. Several other shots during these scenes obviously are from different times of the day, as indicated by the shadows but they do not contradict this calculation.

Anyhow the time DIFFERENCE between the two platform shots therefore should very very roughly be around 8 hours and it seems impossible to interpret these observations in a completely other, opposite, way. So the first shot mentioned above couldn’t have been in the afternoon, since 8 hours later is in the night.
Thus ROUGHLY the ESPERANZA railway tracks should be directed from the station somewhere between north and northeast to between south and southwest in the scenes with ESPERANZA station in the foreground and the tracks directed to the hills in the background. This if correct should for example also for this reason rule out Piñar.

So with the (opposite) direction of the train arriving at ESPERANZA one should probably look for railway tracks going from somewhere between south and southwest in the direction of north and northeast (and with the corresponding curve and probably double tracks etc.).

Conclusion :
On a map the railway tracks at the ESPERANZA station most likely should be directed something like this : I or / but probably not like this : \

Therefore, on the average and in this respect only, the station more likely could be located on railway lines going from south/southwest of Spain to the north/northeast, than from the southeast to northwest, but of course it doesn’t rule out lines in Granada or Almeria.

In this shot in the movie the slightly tilting to the left, horisontal dark wide stretch more resembles a long bridge than only trees in a long row. But it probably is a false clue, since another shot with zoom probably implies just trees.

New clue for me at least : In the upper left corner there is a distant rather big building on the, according to the calculation above, east side of the railway tracks. Its size implies it should still exist (maybe together with newer buildings).

Hi there Runner… As i have said before on occasions i thank you for your countless hours of research…I the same in the early years in the search for ESPERANZA station…I am still on the case but all searches lead to nothing.Living so close to many scenes in NAVAJO JOE filming around Guadix i thought i would have found an answer…I,ve talked to old railway workers although many passed on and very few left with good memories …The ones with clear heads can only name you information about films/trains/remembering actors names etc etc…BUT never a clue to ESPERANZA. .I was always convinced the station was close to GUADIX but now with your vast input into finding the station have come to your way of looking at a main line somewhere…The amount of travelling my wife and myself have been hours and hours in the car in search…I keep going through film after film wondering if i can get a glimpse of The named Esperanza station was used in other films with different name but nothing to date…Somewhere in the past you mentioned getting in the experts… As far as i am concerned to date your the expert hunter …But we stand to be corrected if another expert is better than our search and would congratulate anyone who can crack the mystery code.The search continues Amigo…I,ve not had time to look at the building you mentioned in top left of image you downloaded… My eyesight is not that good but will look at the film again… Happy searching…Pedro

Nice to hear from you again in these days !
Your search by car travelling in theory could give you a better feeling of where there is the type of terrain we are looking for,especially those mysterious “smooth”, even, not rocky, background green hills maybe dominated by olive trees (as the close up view in the movie shows -the one you posted originally with the train + horse approaching the station). But the olive trees in that close up do not appear to be at such regular patterns as one can see in for example the subbetica area where hills are less dark green due to great space between trees.

The building I mentioned is only a possible small verification IF we find the actual location which of course would be easy to recognise anyhow from other details, so it will offer very little as a clue.

But my hopefully correct calculation in some previous post about the geographical positioning of the double railway tracks (due to the shadows direction) must in my view rule out tracks that go from southsoutheast to northnorthwest or with an even greater angle towards west. This should be another evidence which rules out Piñar and other possible stations in similar orientation. Statistically the tracks in Almeria,Murcia,Valencia usually tend to go to the west (more than the east) and therefore, all things equal, should be of less probability than for example tracks in Malaga, Cordoba, Sevilla, Jaen which I think should more often point more to east. Of course there are exceptions.

Regarding via verdes there are several also in south east in Murcia for example where you sometimes can travel via Google Street view. No new promising clues there though so far. Via verdes seem to be everywhere nearly in abundance,but so far I have no promising tracks. As you mentioned ESPERANZA might be along a regular double track and via verdes usually are single tracks.

So we should possibly be looking after double railway tracks (around 1966) that point more to the east than to the west if you consider the direction of the train in the movie as going forward more to the east.

I tried to look for such railway tracks with the help of https://www.vialibre-ffe.com/pdf/ViaDoble_España_21092010.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2U6iNMoQT75qg8kmrOYmPxZj6ydHbw1BHPVzyB3C7x98esoBGQwABvu2E see for example the map on PDF page 9 and maybe some other link regarding the state of conditions around 1966.

The important clue of the configuration of the telegraph poles should lead us to ESPERANZA, IF there in theory for example exist records of such details. As mentioned before the same configuration has appeared in photos from the Murcia province, but no promising tracks there so far.

Nodes in Calahorra area…Close to Tucumcari lol ha ha

… HEY RUNNER NODES lol… Such a mystery buddy but the search goes on…

Here I stumbled on a list of abandoned railways in Spain. Many of these are probably already investigated in some way or another, but most likely only a minority…