Minnesota Clay (Sergio Corbucci, 1964)


(Reverend Danite) #101

Just been dipping into Patrick Agan’s book Clint Eastwood - he sums the ‘difference’ up quite well about the “American hero” as epitimised by John Wayne’s prototype in comparison to the new breed…

“He comes from an older tradition, a throwback to the old definition of the good guy who was indeed tough on the exterior but tender within. Clint had defined a new style of hero - tough exterior and no interior.”


(JonathanCorbett) #102

Clint or Sergio Leone? :wink:


(scherpschutter) #103

Still debatable, maybe these articles will be of interest to you:

http://www.spaghetti-western.net/index.php/Man_with_no_Name
http://www.spaghetti-western.net/index.php/Four_Artists_and_a_Man_with_No_Name


(MrE2Me) #104

Oops, I somehow missed all these replies. ???

Wow, thanks so much for the incredibly insightful and helpful reply, scherpschutter (et al)! That’s precisely the kind of info I was looking for. I’m not new to westerns, but I’ve never really “studied” the genre or done much research about it until recently. Your answer also helps me put my finger on the elements of SWs that I prefer to American westerns (and their figureheads, like John Wayne). The cynical, often bleak and downbeat nature of SW themes and characters just appeals to me more. I enjoy the mystery factor of the “men with no names.” You’re never quite sure what they’ll do, why they’ll do it, or who to root for, if anyone. This ambiguity appeals to me a lot more than the preachy, heavy-handed nature of so many of our films here, which tell you what to think and usually wrap things up nicely by the end, letting audiences off the hook without a challenge. Before I went on my SW-watching spree, I was on a film noir kick, and I’ve noticed quite a few similarities between that genre and both spaghetti and American westerns. While a lot of the protagonists fit scherpschutter’s description of those from American westerns, their motivations were often greed and/or revenge. They were certainly outcasts who rarely thought much of authority figures. I think a lot of film noir characters would’ve fit right in with those of the SWs I’ve seen, given a wardrobe change and some target practice.


(cochino) #105

I really liked this one for what it was, although it sadly had the happy epilogue at the end.
I agree that this one had plenty of SW elements and was quite violent for it’s time as well. Very underrated. I just wished it had a more SW styled soundtrack.
Oh, and I thought Cameron Mitchell was a good casting call and he was pretty good on his role, I really don’t think the movie would’ve became a classic with a younger star since the story wouldn’t have worked that well. If you change the daughter/father relationship and the fact that he’s not only going blind but also tired of his lifestyle I think the movie loses a lot.


(Bad Lieutenant) #106

Rewatched this middle of the road spaghetti western, of which the only original aspect is the gunman going blind. I don´t care much for Mitchell, even though he does ok. He just lacks charisma in my opinion, but that´s perhaps a good thining for an actor playing an on ald fart going blind. Rivieres on the other hand, was good. Sancho was (as usual) underused, too bad.

The Andy character was really awful and so was the happy ending. Normally I´m not in favor of cuts, but the Americans should have cut it from the dvd. The shooting of the glasses was really corny.

All in all still pretty decent, with a tense final duel, but far from the great stuff Corbucci would direct later on.

6/10


(John Welles) #107

I agree about the happy ending - that really is bad. Apparently there is a different ending that was released that ends with Mitchell on the ground in the arms of a woman (I can’t remember which one) and freeze-frames on that, thus implying he dies. It sounds a lot better, IMO.


(scherpschutter) #108

His daughter.

I think this happy end works quite well. It’s a bit hokey (pokey), but I like it, it’s really Corbucci. Wouldn’t have worked in a Leone western.


(Bill san Antonio) #109

[quote=“scherpschutter, post:108, topic:454”]His daughter.

I think this happy end works quite well. It’s a bit hokey (pokey), but I like it, it’s really Corbucci. Wouldn’t have worked in a Leone western.[/quote]
I think it’s like a joke. I believe Corbucci was forced to do happy ending by producers to certain markets.
Same as with TGS, Corbucci agreed to do the happy ending but deliberately made it awful.


(ENNIOO) #110

Do not mind either ending really on this, depends what mood I am in .


(scherpschutter) #111

[quote=“Bill san Antonio, post:109, topic:454”]I think it’s like a joke. I believe Corbucci was forced to do happy ending by producers to certain markets.
Same as with TGS, Corbucci agreed to do the happy ending but deliberately made it awful.[/quote]

Don’t remember it, but quite possible. The happy ending of The Great Silence isn’t that bad (the action is very well directed), but it simply doesn’t fit the movie. In this case both endings are possible, I think.


(Stanton) #112

[quote=“Bill san Antonio, post:109, topic:454”]I think it’s like a joke. I believe Corbucci was forced to do happy ending by producers to certain markets.
Same as with TGS, Corbucci agreed to do the happy ending but deliberately made it awful.[/quote]

That’s what I think too.

Turning a blind man in the last scene back into a sharp shooter is more or less ridiculous.


(Stanton) #113

That ending is in the film.
Just skip the last 4 min and you have the real ending. The camera pulling backwards and away from Clay and his daughter is most likely the last shot of the film as intended. At least it looks that way.
At least Corbucci would have directed this scene different if there was a happy ending to follow.


(John Welles) #114

[quote=“Stanton, post:113, topic:454”]That ending is in the film.
Just skip the last 4 min and you have the real ending. The camera pulling backwards and away from Clay and his daughter is most likely the last shot of the film as intended. At least it looks that way.
At least Corbucci would have directed this scene different if there was a happy ending to follow.[/quote]
I meant the ending was edited differently- my apologies, I should have made that clearer. I’m with you that this ending was the one Corbucci probably wanted.


(John Welles) #115

Another look at Corbucci’s underrated early Spaghetti Western:

[size=12pt]Minnesota Clay Review (John Welles):[/size]


http://www.spaghetti-western.net/index.php/Minnesota_Clay_Review_(John_Welles)


(Stanton) #116

Pretty good John.

Two remarks:

The film was released in Nov 64, not in 65.

And wasn’t it probably the other way round with the 2 endings? The original Italian version runs only 87 min, and that’s the unhappy-end version. And for that must be the original version. I don’t know when and where the longer version first surfaced.


(John Welles) #117

[quote=“Stanton, post:116, topic:454”]Pretty good John.

Two remarks:

The film was released in Nov 64, not in 65.

And wasn’t it probably the other way round with the 2 endings? The original Italian version runs only 87 min, and that’s the unhappy-end version. And for that must be the original version. I don’t know when and where the longer version first surfaced.[/quote]
Thanks for the date, I’ll change that.

As for the different endings, Alex Cox says the happy ending was the original Italien ending.


(scherpschutter) #118

[quote=“John Welles, post:117, topic:454”]Thanks for the date, I’ll change that.

As for the different endings, Alex Cox says the happy ending was the original Italien ending.[/quote]

I checked that too. Alex Cox says the happy ending was the original Italian ending. Bizarre
I’ll see what Giusti says about this.

We made a link to the SWDB facebook page, will give you a lot more hits. Unfortunately the pic you used is too big, so you don’t see a pic on facebook (a pic attracts attention)


(John Welles) #119

I changed the pic to a lot smaller one; can this now be used on Facebook?


(scherpschutter) #120

Not yet visible. I’ll check things with Sebastian, maybe he can hypnotize the pic and make it visible.
(I prefer this pic, by the way, a beauty)