or Cipolla Colt… 
I posted mine in March.It is time for some changes.I’m working on it…
I’m new here, so I thought I’d post my current Top 20 as a starting point.
I haven’t seen many Spaghetti Westerns (some 50+), but everyone has to to begin sometime, eh?
Anyways, I really like the genre so far and haven’t seen any really bad films, yet (ok, I switched off Cjamango after 20 minutes, but that means I still haven’t seen it, so it doesn’t count, of course), so a Top 20 is not difficult. Maybe I was lucky so far, and the (many) stinkers are still to come? Who knows.
The first 10 are all masterpieces, imho.
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Once Upon a Time in the West (Sergio Leone)
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The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Sergio Leone)
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God Forgives… I Don’t! (Guiseppe Colizzi)
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Ringo from Nebraska (Antonio Román, [Mario Bava])
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Django (Sergio Corbucci)
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Keoma (Enzo G. Castellari)
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A Stranger in Town (Luigi Vanzi)
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The Bounty Killer (Eugenio Martín)
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For a Fistful of Dollars (Sergio Leone)
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The Mercenary (Sergio Corbucci)
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Trinity is STILL my Name! (Enzo Barboni)
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Boot Hill (Giuseppe Colizzi)
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Mannaja (Sergio Martino)
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The Ruthless Four (Giorgio Capitani)
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The Specialists (Sergio Corbucci)
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More Dollars for the MacGregors (José Luis Merino)
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A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (Tonino Valerii)
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Ace High (Giuseppe Colizzi)
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Johnny Hamlet (Enzo G. Castellari)
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10,000 Dollars for a Massacre (Romolo Guerrieri)
PS: I intentionally didn’t include Robert Hossein’s phenomenal TASTE OF VIOLENCE (1961) because I don’t consider it a western in the stricter sense of the term. Otherwise it would easily be my No.1 pick. Similarly I also didn’t include Mario Camus’ mainly Spanish film TRINITY SEES RED, as it has only been marketed as a western, and has very tenuous connections to the genre.
Welcome amigo.
Some surprising choices in your list. How comes that Cemetery without Crosses is not in your list when you like Taste of Violence so much?
Please could you name another one for Pyramid of the Sun God? It’s not a SW, actually not even a western. I will count Trinity Sees Red and Taste of Violence for the main list. They are also border cases, but others had already named them, so they might stay.
Oh, and the newbie More Dollars for the MacGregors is the 200th film named in our list. A choice I like …
Welcome, Bible Joe.
Interesting list with a couple of selections which may or may not qualify. Taste of Violence has a stronger argument for inclusion due to its Zapata-esque nature but I would struggle to see Trinity Sees Red as a western of any kind. Set in 20th century Europe? To be honest, I have no idea why it is in the database here at all. One of those films which somehow gets lumped in with the genre due to actors and loose theme. Anyhow, not my call. We’ll let Brother Stanton judge on this.
Either way, nice to have you with us and hope you enjoy the rest of your journey of discovery in the genre.
No, it ain’t my choice what we count and what not. the majority decides.
Taste of Violence was discussed before, and there were some who said it should count. So I took it. It climbed now with only 3 votes to # 78. Actually I haven’t it in my list cause I don’t consider it as a SW. and I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks highly of it.
Those film by Camus (it was the also the 3rd vote for this one) is technically not really a western, but it was made in the wake of the genre, and there is doubtless some SW style in it. Again, I don’ know.
If some think it shouldn’t be included, now is the time to discuss it.
Taste of Violence is a tricky case - an incredible film but I don’t think it could be called a Spaghetti Western even if only due to its year of release ('61). Eurowestern is probably the most you could stretch it to.
Fair enough. I can’t judge on Taste of Violence as, although I have had it sitting in a pile for ages I haven’t actually got around to seeing it yet. (will rectify that situation this week). But I’ll cast my vote now to not have Trinity Sees Red included. For my money it simply cannot qualify if set in Europe any more than Man, Pride and Vengeance or God Help Us! Here Comes the Passatore do.
@Bible Joe - Please don’t take our discussion personally. As stated before, you are not the first to make these selections and we just like a good discussion here anyway. 
In my opinion there should be 3 criteria:
- taking place in the wild west or Zapata land
- set in the time of the old west
- Euro produced and/or shot in Europe
Agreed
I think this discussion is more than valid, and I’m gald it happened!
Originally I didn’t include TASTE OF VIOLENCE or TRINITY SEES RED on the list, specifically for the reason that I don’t consider it a western. But after looking at the other ballots and the final tally, I thought my opinion was a “minority”, as other people here had voted for them. Subsequently, as I adore those two films, I edited my list, and threw out Numbers 19 + 20.
So as a sign that I agree that we should only count westerns (although I know it can be very hard to determine) I have edited my list once again, and kicked those 2 out. 
I like Bad Lieutenant’s 3 criterias, but would like to say that the third criterium “Euro produced and /or shot in Europe” could be stricter, as I personally only count a western as Spaghetti Western if it has been produced by an Italian company. All others may be hommages, etc. but not Spaghetti Westerns, imo.
@Stanton
As I said, I’ve only seen some 50+ Spaghetti Westerns so far. Unfortunately CEMETERY WITHOUT CROSSES was not one of them. I’m pretty sure it could make my Top 20 though, when I finally see it, as Hossein’s TASTE OF VIOLENCE is one of my 100 favorite films.
I was surprised how excellent the MacGregors film is when I saw it a couple of years ago. But you can’t argue quality. 
As for PYRAMID OF THE SUNGOD, I can’t quite understand why you think it is not a Spaghetti Western, and not even a Western. It’s true it takes place in Mexico, but it’s set during the revolutionary years in 1864 (which is the time period of the Old West) and has very classical Western themes (gunplay all the time, Indians, and the search for Gold), and it was produced by an Italian company.
If films taking place in Mexico don’t count - what I would understand - then again why is there GIU LA TESTA (no US-Americans, doesnt’ take place in the time period of the old west) on many lists?
Personally I don’t consider GIU LA TESTA a Western, but I would have put it in my Top 20, because it has been voted for by many people here, if I would like it enough (same as TASTE OF VIOLENCE and TRINITY SEES RED). I’m also sceptical about A BULLET FOR THE GENERAL but it seems to be generally regarded as a Western (even if Damiani himself said that it is not a Western), so I again would have put it in the Top 20 If there weren’t other films I like more. So why do you think PYRAMID OF THE SUN GOD is not an Italian Western, and I should remove it?
@ Phil H
I always appreciate a discussion. That’s why I joined the forum. So don’t worry. And thanks for the welcome!
I thought that, Pyramid of the Sun God and Mercenaries of the Rio Grande were Karl May westerns, or am i wrong. ???
Unlike Fuori uno… sotto un altro arriva il Passatore, L’uomo l’orgoglio la vendetta and La collera del vento are in some way connected with the genre, to the extent that in some countries they were titled Mit Django kam der Tod, Django Não Perdoa Mata, Revenge of Trinity, Trinita voit rouge; so to my way of thinking their remaining in the list should be beyond dispute. What is more, isn’t the most part of the undisputed Get Mean set in Medieval Spain?
The case of Le Goût de la Violence is totally different: I stand out against the extremist fringe headed by El Topo! ;D (see his conclusion in The Taste of Violence thread, Reply #18)
Joking aside, the film was produced completely outside the context of the genre and as a consequence in my view it shouldn’t be included.
@ JonathanCorbett
I would disagree. The titling with Django and Trinity were just marketing ploys in some markets to ride off the back of Nero and Hill’s popularity. The stories are Spanish, set in Spain and have no connection with the west at all.
As for Get Mean, that does at least start in the west before it goes all ape shit with time travel and whatnot. Similarly Stranger in Japan. He is a western character who begins his story in the west before going abroad and taking his culture and trappings with him. These have genuine, if whackey connections with the west. The films discussed above don’t.
@Bible Joe
Giu la Testa, Bullet for the General and the like are set in Mexico which is geographically North America and therefore, along with Canada, fits into the wider context of the wild west as far as I’m concerned. Too many westerns cross the border for me not to consider them all part of the same mythical landscape when it comes to movies. Their 20th century setting is another matter but one I am willing to overlook for purely arbitrary and emotional reasons. I can’t stand motor vehicles in westerns but I make exceptions for those set in the Mexican revolution and extend my time frame parameters accordingly.
@Lone Gringo
Haven’t seen Pyramid of the Sun God (heard it was a bit rubbish) but as a Karl May story set in Mexico I would consider it a western too.
Pyramid of the Sun God is a western, but it’s not too Italian, now is it? There are some Lira in it, but that’s it. For me, a German film.
This is why, as far as I’m concerned, Euro produced and/or shot in Europe is 1 of the criteria. And it is not further limited to just Italy. Technically the prefix spaghetti of course refers to Italy, but there are a bunch of films made with (for example) only Spanish money, that are spaghetti enough in my book.
So if anybody were to nominate Winnetou, High Plains Invaders or Lemonade Joe, they should be able to, in my opinion.
[quote=“Bible Joe, post:2183, topic:190”]I’m new here, so I thought I’d post my current Top 20 as a starting point.
I haven’t seen many Spaghetti Westerns (some 50+), but everyone has to to begin sometime, eh?
Anyways, I really like the genre so far and haven’t seen any really bad films, yet (ok, I switched off Cjamango after 20 minutes, but that means I still haven’t seen it, so it doesn’t count, of course), so a Top 20 is not difficult. Maybe I was lucky so far, and the (many) stinkers are still to come? Who knows.
The first 10 are all masterpieces, imho.
-
Once Upon a Time in the West (Sergio Leone)
-
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Sergio Leone)
-
God Forgives… I Don’t! (Guiseppe Colizzi)
-
Ringo from Nebraska (Antonio Román, [Mario Bava])
-
Django (Sergio Corbucci)
-
Keoma (Enzo G. Castellari)
-
A Stranger in Town (Luigi Vanzi)
-
The Bounty Killer (Eugenio Martín)
-
For a Fistful of Dollars (Sergio Leone)
-
The Mercenary (Sergio Corbucci)
-
Trinity is STILL my Name! (Enzo Barboni)
-
Boot Hill (Giuseppe Colizzi)
-
Mannaja (Sergio Martino)
-
The Ruthless Four (Giorgio Capitani)
-
The Specialists (Sergio Corbucci)
-
More Dollars for the MacGregors (José Luis Merino)
-
A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (Tonino Valerii)
-
Pyramid of the Sun God (Robert Siodmak)
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Ace High (Giuseppe Colizzi)
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10,000 Dollars for a Massacre (Romolo Guerrieri)[/quote]
very interesting list, bible joe, especially that Ringo from Nebraska at 4th - i’m definitely going for this fella in my next sw run
btw, always glad to see Colizzis on someone’s list, especially Boot Hill
Just to clarify, Man, Pride and Vengeance is much more related to the genre than - to take an example - Man in the Wilderness, considered a Eurowestern because filmed in Spain: undoubtedly a good movie, but it has nothing to do with Italian-Style Western. I think we all, starting from Stanton, agree on that.
Well, you are right about Pyramid of the Sun God set in the West. Hmm, somehow I see it still as an adventure film, even if that is wrong. Lack of Winetou maybe.
Anyway we agreed once not to include the Karl May westerns. Some of them have a minor Italian co-production contribution, and one of the later ones was even shot in Spain, but they are indeed German westerns, which means they are Euro westerns, and also they are very different in style to SWs. I would prefer not to include them like before.
For Man, Pride and Vengeance and La collera del vento I’m with Jonathan. Both are technically no westerns, but they are connected with the genre by some of its style and by the leads. Border cases for sure, but they are ok for me to be counted.
Taste of Violence is for me an even greater border case.
My SW definition is to include all Italian and Spanish westerns. Exceptions I make for films which are clearly rooted in the genre, which have the SW style and which were made in its heydays. Like the French western Cemetery without Crosses, the most prominent example. Actually most Euro westerns are according to their style closer to the US westerns of these years than to the SW. I would also have no problems to include those 2 South African westerns by Peter Henkel. And I still don’t think that Red Sun is a SW. But most do.
But frankly said I would prefer to let those in which are already in. This would mean at least no Sun God.
Yes, PYRAMID OF THE SUNGOD is a Karl May film. Most of the Karl May adaptations in the 60s were westerns, I don’t know why exactly, but maybe it had something to do with the times and the popularity of Spaghetti Westerns. In fact the first Karl May adaptation of the 60s (there were adaptations prior to the 60s in Germany) is considered by many to be the first Euro Western: THE TREASURE OF SILVER LAKE. It’s also a Yugoslavian Western (of which there are few). There were also some Westerns made in East Germany, even more than in West Germany, I believe.
Anyways PYRAMID OF THE SUNGOD was similar to FISTFUL OF DOLLARS as far as country of origin goes. Both were producd by West Germany and Italy, so it’s a bit strange that some people categorize them merely as Italian OR German, as FISTFUL OF DOLLARS is clearly also a German film. PYRAMID OF THE SUNGOD is also French film, btw. and there were also a number of French Westerns made during the 60s.
Personally, I make a distinction between Euro Westerns and Spaghetti Westerns. Euro Westerns are made anywhere in Europe (e.g. films made completely in Turkey), but a Spaghetti Western or Italo Western has to have Italian money in it. Otherwise I don’t count it.
As far as the Camus film TRINITY SEES RED is concerned: The Django titles were marketing (mostly in foreign countries). It’s a bit like taking the new Hobbit film and calling it Django (outside of the US). They could do that with TRINITY SEES RED more easily, because the film has Terence Hill in it, who sometimes wears a Cowboy hat and pistols. And the film has many stylistics in common with Italo Westerns from that time. But so have many other films (gangster films, spy films, Polizioteschi, etc.). But of course, as I said, it’s difficult determining what actually is a Western in the first place. there are many different criteria, and everyone has to judge by himself in the end, I guess.
@Stanton
My last post came while you posted your last, so there’s no reference (or lecturing) to your post in it. Hope that won’t be misunderstood:
Overall, I see there’s many different opinions, so you just tell me which ones are allowed here, and which ones not, and I will update/edit my list accordingly.