Once Upon a Time in the West / C’era una volta il West (Sergio Leone, 1968)

Long version means in Norway a cut version was released , a version which skips Cheyene’s death scene?

Yes, along with the desert cantina scene.

And you got the Rising scene instead?

I assume that more scenes were cut than only these 2, similar to the UK version or the later US version.

Was it a success in that cut version?

No, this scene was not in the Norwegian 1970 release either. I have tried to find out the running length of this version, so far without success. But the film was a success, although some of the fans of the dollar films thought it to arty. It was the first film I saw more than ten times in the cinemas (and so far the only one). GBU was not shown in Norway. You had to go to Goteborg to see that one.

So no “rising” scene showing Harmonica getting up and no cantina scene showing him with the bullet wound… basically in Norway at least, Harmonica was a fully-fledged ghost.

We didn’t see him as a ghost. We just assumed he had survived the shoot-out with Frank’s men. Norwegians are not as superstitious as Americans. :grinning:

In the UK version according to Frayling 2 more scenes were cut:

  1. Desert Cantina scene (14 min)

  2. Frank and Morton talking at Frank’s hideout in the hills, the one in which Frank kicks away Morton’s crutches (2 min)

  3. When Frank discovers his dead men after Cheyenne’s escape), the part where he walks inside the train is missing (75 sec)

  4. Cheyenne’s death (4 min)

The UK version had a 144 min runtime, and it is puzzling why they left the long riding away ending intact, when most of the cuts only were made to make the film shorter.

In the US version (also 144 min), which was firstly cut a few weeks after it was released uncut, instead of # 3 the scene was missing in which Jill at her first night on the McBain ranch hears Harmonica playing outside and shoots with a shotgun into the dark (1 min). And a short scene from the end was cut, cause it shows Harmonica with the dead Cheyenne. Also the first scene was trimmed by 70 sec, the very same 70 sec which are still missing on all home video versions released by Paramount.
A year later a version appeared, which now contained the Rising scene as explanation for Harminica’s survival and ended earlier with a freeze frame, instead of Harmonica riding away with Cheyenne’s body in the distant.

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Did they cut this scene and keep Cheyenne’s death scene?

Of course not. In the first cut US version you could still see Harmonica and the dead Cheyenne from far away, while only the earlier part was removed in which both were clearly visible. In the later version they freeze framed the film before we see them again in the background. Maybe some people in the audience had noticed. Beeeg question: Was Harmonica not only a ghost, but did he also kill Cheyenne outside the frame? Well, a ghost may be able to do this without any noise. :wink:

All this information is from the detailed article in Video Watchdog.

I myself had the luck to watch only the uncut theatrical version for many years, which btw was an enormous success in Germany. It is still the # 3 of all films since 1968. Only surpassed by The Jungle Book and Titanic. More admisisions sold than by any Star Wars, any Bond, any Lord of the Rings, any Harry Potter, any Spielberg and also more than Avatar. And closely followed by Trinity Is Still My Name on # 5. That were the days …

It is exactly how the Norwegian 1970 release was cut. I’m not sure about running time. But 2 hrs 20 min springs to mind. But as you know, my memory is not completely reliable…

I hope so, I doubt it does but I can hope.

I don’t think that he did necessarily. I think he (like a lot of directors) was like a photographer who takes thousands of photos and only uses about five. I think he just used the very best he had during editing and discarded the rest, or in West’s case just discarded a lot of the script.

Do you think Harmonica was a ghost or not? I’ve never been able to decide but I’ve always wondered. The bullet wound of course implies otherwise, but as you say seems like the soul of a native who won’t rest until he avenges his brothers death and as Frayling points out on the commentary (can’t remember exactly what he said), he seems to have some kind of supernatural control over time and each frame he enters.

Ghosts don’t bleed, and I see there simply Leone’s stylisation of the hero’s movements.

I personally don’t like the idea of him being a ghost. For me it is an idiotic idea, but I have no problems in having a vague ambiguity about it.

I also prefer it that in Django the Bastard, in which the ghost aspect is there on purpose, it is still not 100 % certain, it is left open for interpretation.

I don’t think that he did necessarily. I think he (like a lot of directors) was like a photographer who takes thousands of photos and only uses about five. I think he just used the very best he had during editing and discarded the rest, or in West’s case just discarded a lot of the script.
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Leone had definitely a problem in restricting himself to what is necessary for the film. Which leads to film and keep too much scenes, which even when good in themselves, can become a problem for the film’s rhythm.

The pressure by the producers to keep a film in a tolerable runtime was something he needed, without this pressure he would never have ended the films.

I think the vague ambiguity is the point. No-one really thinks he is a ghost, just like no-one really thinks Noodles dreamed the whole of Once Upon a Time in America, but it just adds a little extra level to things and gives people like us something to endlessly muse on.

Personally I never thought about Harmonica as a ghost. The whole idea of ghosts belongs, imo, to the world of horror movies (or religious movies if you wish), and Once upon doesn’t feel like a horror movie. Some events like the slaughter of the McBain family or the hanging of the brother might be horrible, but that’s not the same thing. Django the Bastard does, that is a horror movie, and that’s why I can accept that particular Django to be a ghost.

I only realized Harmonica could be interpreted as a ghost when I read about it (I don’t remember when or where exactly, but I had seen the movie at least half a dozen times). I also read that some think that Leone played with the idea to turn him into a ghost, but finally rejected it. For me he’s not a ghost, but - very much like Colonel Mortimer - a man who is so obsessed by revenge, who’s mind is so preoccupied with death, that he no longer acts like a normal human being.

I also never spent the slightest thought on Harmonica being a ghost, before I read that some people do.

Harmonica has never been a ghost in my mind aswell, just a man with a score to settle.

Makes the most sense to me.

Speaking of horror films what do you think of Gary Hamilton in ‘and God said to Cain’? Some seem to think he’s a ghost, and the way he weaves in and out of the frames, the crows and the tornado certainly make it seem plausible but I’ve never liked the idea. If he was why did he spend ten years in prison?

I don’t think he is a ghost, or supposed to be one, but the film has definitely horror influences. The director was schooled in the horror genre, if i’m not mistaken.